As I’ve switched from commercial R11.5 and educational R15, I’ve started to learn new ways with R20. However, one thing I cannot work out is why are there lines that look like edge lines in the render. They only appear, when I turn Vector Motion Blur on. This didn’t happen in C4D R15, as that’s a technique I used to teach my students.
When I turn VMB or render single frame, it’s fine. But other than that - the lines appear.
Sometimes line disappear and comes really odd shadow (luckily, managed to capture both lines and shadow in the attached image).
Any ideas how to deal with it? I’d be so grateful!
Thank you very much for the scene file. Sorry that you have run with your first post directly in an upload problem.
I have explored the R16, and r20 settings and they are pretty much the same:
Screenshot https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/fV3k5egWDBHHV7LBJmijqcpy5VvmmaWTfzBS4DXKouK
Both releases R16 (sorry I do not have currently a R15 installed) and R20 looks identical to me.
I stayed in 8bit, based on your file, I typically advice against it.
The values that I have found in your scene are mostly all over 100%. When I reset the values to default, and use the camera exposure time excessively, then the results are just pleasant. If you need values way over the shutter speed from practical cameras, use the camera’s parameter in R20.
Please explore the Physical render, the Motion Blur alone is certainly worth it.
However, if you think that the lines you get are a problem based on R20, then please contact the support. I’m not supposed to give technical (as in application errors) help here. https://support.maxon.net/index.php
Thanks for a quick reply!
Physical render isn’t an option, at least not for this project. Render time is up to 5 times longer and it will exceed the clients budget. The results are really nice, but can’t afford it at the moment. Especially, when I’m using Sketch and Toon style, which is pretty simple.
I guess it’s R20 issue. I’ve managed to do the simplest possible scene (all defaults) and the problem still occurs.
Maybe you could take a look? Files attached.
In the middle of the long, green bar, you can see some lines. They’re an error and they shouldn’t be there. As soon as I turn VMB off, they are gone. With VMB on, can’t get rid of them :(
I’ve accidentally opened the scene file in R15 EDU version. The render is spotless! Didn’t change anything and the render is perfect…
Scene files are so much better than anything else to communicate those things. Really: Thank you.
The change here is “obviously” based on the Reflectance Channel. Switch this channel off, and the lines are gone. If AA is on, they are back.
(The Reflectance channel had a lot of changes since a while.)
However, the problem is gone, even with AA on, at the moment the Samples and the Radius is doubled. Even with Reflectance on.
Man, was I happy when I read your comment
I tried, but unfortunately it didn’t change anything. Lines are still there.
I’ve opened Maxon ticket - maybe tech support could tell me something?
I’ve also started to look for workarounds and if there won’t be any other solution for C4D - there are some positive opinions about Adobe After Effects motion blur. But I got used to this VMB in my workflow.
Missed the file you’ve attached! I’m checking it now - seems to work, but how?
Be back when I understand it!
[EDIT] OK, doesn’t work entirely :( What an emotional roller-coaster here!
You’ve used Sample Radius of 3.0, which blurs the lines. When I switch back to 1.5 (default) or choose higher resolution - the lines are back.
What’s more, when Sample Radius is high, the object become very blurry, if there’s a tiny movement. And I really feel like that tiny vibration or position shift adds a lot of organic feeling to the motions.
Please check the file, I edited the last post after further inspections. Doubling the Samples as well as the sample Radius does the trick here, I can’t see any line anymore.
There is the Re:Vision FX, Smart Blur, which uses the Motion Pass as information. Best in 16bit/channel or preferred as 32bit/channel. No Aa and no color profile either, if you like to have quality. However, the problem is typically given in the fact that obscured objects won’t share information to the blur, but of course, it is an aesthetical question as well. I have used it in one film production exclusively, and it seemed to not have bothered anyone during a year-long festival circuit (2K-direct film-print).
Please do, Pawel Dudko, any solution is worth to be mentioned here.
There is often more than one solution, and some fit more to a problem than another.
During NAB-NY I was told that people start to use this forum like a WIKI. So, yes let us know.
So I’ve received a similar answer from Maxon Tech Support.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t work entirely. With dynamic object, constantly in motion it’s OK, but when the object stops the lines and shadows tend to appear randomly. What’s more - the object becomes more blurry as the Sample Radius increases.
You can check attached images.
VMB OFF - clean and sharp object
VMB ON - the reminiscence of the lines is still there, but less visible; unfortunately, there will also be shadows as shown in the first picture in the thread.
Object is blurry, even when the motion is slight - here, I’ve used vibrate tag with frequency of 0.5, so the rotation was tiny. And it still caused a lot of soft edges.
Maxon Tech Support replied that this bug cannot be avoided.
So I guess I’ll check some other motion blur algorithms. Maybe future versions will solve this issue.
Thanks for your support!
In one production, under a lot of time pressure, and with limited CPU power, I mixed Sub-Frame Motion Blur with Vector Motion Blur (Post).
All of that is a while ago since I use the Physical Motion Blur, it is the only way to get Depth of Field and Motion Blur together, considering a certain quality.
Summarizing, the artifacts appear based on several influences, and we haven’t even discussed light. If you go to your infinite light source, Details, Contrast, set it to -25%, will the problem change?
Hi!
I’ve checked your scene and it’s marvelous! When reduced Range Mapper > Input Lower to 0 it worked like a charm! That’s a remarkable solution
However, it doesn’t work on Fracture Object when rotation is performed by Plain Effector. Maybe there should be different Xpresso nodes? I’m just a newbie in that matter.
The other thing is - my animation is going to be rich in objects, so I’d really love to avoid creating Xpresso tag for each of those and manually tune them.
Adjusting the light doesn’t change anything. These lines appear even without any light on materials with Luminosity channel only.
I attach the same file rendered in both R20 I’ve updated to and R15 EDU.
Same file, same settings, not even the slightest change has been made.
Sample Radius is 1.5, so lower, than you and Tech Support suggested. And in R15 it works.
I thought I had a workaround with the Mesher (I deleted the post), but further tests showed that I can reproduce it even with it.
Please know, that we are here for aiding your learning, not for technical application/product support. Your effort is very appreciated. The series of images are for helpful for the Maxon Support. That there are artifacts has been established: I got that the R15 had a different outcome. The application code has changed, going by any announcement since R15, it is sadly not just a simple copy and paste the old code back into it and done. Anyway, I’m not supposed to do technical application support here. I can help to check if I can reproduce it, so you feel more confident reporting an issue to the Support, or perhaps find an alternative route for you to get going. I write this here to manage expectations.
I did spend a complete day trying any possible option, re-scaled every object in your scene, tried it with Normal map, replaced the Bump with a normalizer approach in the Normal channel and so much more. Sure, I might have missed one or two things, but so far I have very little hope for any workaround. It needs to be fixed from the developers. Sorry, that there was nothing else.
The Xpresso part. The set up for one object can be expanded usually with an Iteration, and Link List set up. A series of objects will be placed into a link list, and the Iteration will cycle through them, one time per frame. So, the number of objects is not really a problem. Let me know if you like to have an example. The only problem that I can see right now is to set the input upper for each individually, without getting a vast amount of nodes in it.
For now, it is either Physical or Sub Frame Motion Blur, if not solved in post.
Hi Dr. Sassi!
I saw your post just before going to bed. I wish I checked the file, because every time you suggest a workaround I learn something new. When I was teaching C4D basics I told my students “what I’m showing you right now, there’s probably many other ways to do”, but I didn’t think there are so many workarounds. C4D is truly a gigantic and powerful software!
I wanted to post exact R15/R20 comparison, because I felt my first example wasn’t clear enough. And as I’ve linked this discussion with Tech Support conversation, I hope it might be useful for them
Thanks for all your effort. I didn’t even think anyone would be so helpful and generous with their time.
I think I understand your Xpresso solution. And the tuning part was also my concern. However, I’ve checked Adobe AE Timewarp motion blur and it’s fine for the latest project. Appreciate the information about Re:Vision FX! Would love to go with it, as I’ve read a lot of great comments about their plug-ins, but for a while I need to watch my budget. Maybe soon I’ll invest in that.
Once again - thank you very much! Your ideas and solutions and time are very, very appreciated!!!
To be honest - now I feel a bit more confident, that if I find a problem with C4D (which is usually my own mistake), I can post it and find help. Don’t worry though, at first I try to solve it myself, so I won’t be a spammer
Information on how to reproduce a problem is always the best information. With a scene file it easier to see if the whole set up was leading to the problem or if there is really something that needs otherwise to be addressed.
The little lines show up, and then they don’t. Every time I thought I had the workaround defined, I continued to stress test the solution and - sadly - it showed up again. So far, more often than not, I found something so the work could continue. Not this time. Which is pretty much the exception, that it failed after all. In this and in the Cineversity Archive (see bottom of the page), we have gone through quite some adventure. I hope it will all support the projects everyone is working one. This was a tricky one, no question.
The support is a great team, and they often have a different solution, hence why I love to send people over. There is another reason, as application problems are in the best hands with them since they virtually have a red telephone to the developer. Just kidding about the red phone, but something like that.
P.S.: Have you tried to set up a pipeline with Black Magic Design’s Fusion?
The Vector Motion Blur node works nicely, with small adjustments, though.
Fusion is for free (max UHD) and tested in many feature films.
Here are the little adjustments needed to make it work Cinema 4D to Fusion.
Hi Dr. Sassi!
I’ve been away for a while. Long story…
Thanks a lot for the video! I really appreciate it. That’s amazing I’ve tried it in DaVinci Resolve 15, as that’s what I use for my final editing. I’ve managed to follow your steps and it worked like a charm Just one question, maybe it’s wrong place to ask, but I suppose you might have the answer.
When I import regular JPGs, the colors are as I intended. When I import EXR’s, Resolve made it really dark, no LUT’s added. Do you have any ideas?
Maybe there’s something wrong with settings?
Just kidding about the red phone, but something like that.