Applying a mesh deformer to a grouped/null object that has a rig conundrum
Posted: 09 May 2018 09:19 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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Hi

Wondering if any one can help?

I have a rigged angler fish (mouth, fins, head light etc…) and on top of this I am trying to apply a mesh deformer being driven by a box that is bound to an IK chain with dynamics switched on - this is to get good body and tail motion.

This tutorial shows basically half of what I am doing to achieve this: https://vimeo.com/120497564

However, as stated I’m applying this to an already rigged fish as i need to animate secondary motion - mouth opening and angler light swaying etc…

I just cant seem to get it to work. The mesh deformer seems to need to be in a nested null/group with the fish object - the moment I do this it breaks the fishes actual rig. Its as if the the simple ik chain bound to the box is trashing the bones inside the fish.

In an ideal world I need to have the rigged fish in a group then deform that group with the mesh deformer.

Any one have any ideas where I am going wrong.

Thanks

D

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Posted: 09 May 2018 10:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Hi D.

May I ask you to change your user name? This name is misleading and other members could think you are in charge here of any MAXON Licensing.Support. Which could cause upset to say the least.

.

The Problem that you might encounter is the weighting. If the Mesh (Cage) Deformer is placed under the Skin Deformer, it takes over, and only release its power if the Falloff>Weighting is set lower. But the Joints influence is then limited, until the weight is set to 0%. (This is how I understand the Weight suggestion in the help-content)

If the cage works after the Joints/Skin, then the object might move outside of the cage, and create weird deformations. A remedy could be, to use the joints as well to deform the cage to begin with, so it follows the main object as it follows the joints. Example (outside of the cage):
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/j3hqylepkhhm2Z6rfZq08OfFPukdFSlWP0fimxa3oQa

But please check out the set up here, I hope that should work. It needs to be placed over, then initialized. Perhaps make the cage large enough.
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/RlVz5VikzAdqYNRt6H5FBcRUqIQVUsQSWY2aI8HpR8a

Here is a little scene to showcase which deformer works first. If the object is moved by one defomer the later working deformer might have nothing to work with anymore.
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/H91UK4csHvq8t9reSsvknld07k1rqTIR1IYBWru2Ht8

All the best

Edited May11

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Posted: 10 May 2018 12:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Hi

Whoops - that was the IT dept here that set the account up! I’ve just manage to change it, not sure I could of managed my current job and working as a licensing support for you chaps smile

I give what you say a go. Thanks D

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Posted: 10 May 2018 08:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Very nice of you, dabl, or if you prefer, D.!

If you have any follow up question on your character animation problem, please let me know. I’m not convinced that my post could be seen as a final solution at all.

Have you tried a simple Wave deformer?  The Motion Clip System?

My best wishes.

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Posted: 10 May 2018 10:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Hi D.,

If the options above won’t work, please check out these variations.

Here is one option that I mentioned above, based on the tutorial:
https://www.cineversity.com/vidplaytut/nla_intermediate_layers

The clip below includes the “swing”  movement for the “fish”, roughly. I used here a human example, but the repetition was the key here, and how easily one can mix the “overlaying” or “secondary” animation.

Kai’s tutorial shows it on top of a keyframe animation, my clip (below) shows it on top of a Motion Clip.
Quick screen capture, one minute:
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/7UhHMvRyH9WpfzKCcBeiN7eOC7gaoe2F5fIwwcsc37R

I hope that helps to keep your animation manageable.


My best wishes for your project.

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Posted: 11 May 2018 12:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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P.S.: since it is a fish you like to deform after joint deformations, perhaps based on the simple fish body a Spline Deformer might work.

I tested it here with a rig from the CV-Mixamo series. (I have simplified the body here for the demo, CA> Convert> Joints To Spline, etc)

For a biped this might be too “cartoony”, but perhaps a fish could take it.

Screen capture:
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/7gy3G5D2c05mDM6gTAI0zO7mjAwlALDVZ0Zd9U5S7bT

Please test this carefully for your targets, as I’m not aware of your set up at all.

=====

To get the Mesh Deformer to work on a Joint based animation, currently, I have no better idea than to use an XPresso/FFD “converter” to get it done. Adjust the Bend-Deformer in the scene to your liking and check if that would work. The Bend Deformer is only used as an example, anything done to the cage should translate nicely.
Scene file
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/LfumKa7DKHlYKyXXt0qUfKueOOXm0idkzKbgtyggL3f

However, I have tested it again, and perhaps this should work as requested
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/1QFqrgRbglXaCfOmR7bAvV37MJ61San0KotCi7qJnUQ

======

Besides that, the PoseMorph shouldn’t be forgotten to get this done. Here is a little sketch (very rough) but I placed a HUD slider in the editor view, so it is easy to stop or increase the “swing.” I would add the Pose Morph after the joint animation is mainly done, for sevaral reason, to see how far one can go, and to set the swing with the idea of swim direction.

Scene file:
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/kHAsb1gfi1eTTJaemTqK18dMbuNR1czebjMVaQSyVdG

Cheers

Edited May 14 (added scene file …_21.c4d)

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Posted: 15 May 2018 06:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Hi

Thanks for this! sorry its taken so long to reply, had to jump on something else for a few days. I will try it out and let you know how I get on. Thanks again!

D

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Posted: 15 May 2018 09:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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You’re very welcome, D.

I hope you can pick one or the other method to get where you like to be.

I’m happy to look into your file (can be done privately via upload link) to be more specific. Typically the best outcome is given, when the original target is known.

My best wishes for your project.

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