Cineversity

Hey there.. I want to try to animate a rubber cover over a piston.. But for now, I only want to animate the rubber as in compress the rubber cover.. To make this work, I realised I would need to create the rubber part in C4D.. So I used Rhino to create the profile and then saved it as an AI.. It goes into C4D fine, and…. I worked out how to revolve the profile..  .smile

BUT.. How do I compress the solid from a set point.. What I have now is no different to if I added the model in the first place.. I was hoping that I would have the same option as with a spring..

Amazing I worked out how to revolve..

Tesselaar..

Not sure how to explain this.. I need the control to squeeze the top part of the rubber..

Like this it goes zig, zag, zig, zag, zig, zag, I need it to compress from the bottom zag.. I guess I have confused everyone.. LOL..

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My Rubber profile looks beautiful… Amazing in fact.. I guessed that I could use an AI file to create the profile and revolve it in C4D, but it works really well.. Once I worked out how to revolve it, its easy.. But I do not see any extra control to squeeze the rubber from point a to point b..

Edit, the question was how to animate an accordion pleat. Please scroll down to post #14, where you will find a few working solutions. /edit

Hi Tesselar,

I’m confused here now, the title of the thread tells me “How to Revolve a profile and have control extra control..”, and then you write it has been solved. So, do you need an answer here? I really try to follow here.

You can create this profile in Cinema 4D directly.
Either way, use the Lathe Tool for that.

Screen capture
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/NnL5j3DodmzrygGVSu5ATd0L0d0KU23JizyOUzYYYme

This is pretty much a two part question, I will continue, as the Lathe question is not really the problem here, but please understand that “extra control” is not helping people to find this thread with your main question.

EXTRA CONTROL (Primitives)

The Helix that we used for the Spring was what is called a primitive.
Those objects have parameters to change the information.
Primitives can be made editable (pressing the c key). After that, they are either splines or polygons (based on the initial object).
With that, they lose their primitive based parameters.
If you create a spline, it can take any shape; there is no way that all possible adjustments can be provided, like with the Helix and how many degrees it can describe.

Is the rubber element seen from the outside only, or will it be x-rayed. In other words, what will be visible, and what can be ignored?

Here is a little pointer:
https://www.cineversity.com/forums/viewthread/3612/

Cheers

I am really sorry to confuse you, and I totally agree with you..

What a great video.. You did it much quicker than I did.. Just after I posted my question, I worked it out after 2 hours of trying, I was stunned that it worked.. But, you can see the top half of the rubber model, that needs to be squeezed up and down as the piston goes in and out.. Its like a gasket perhaps its called.. The piston rod goes through the centre..

Sorry, I have a habit of confusing people. My brain is working overtime.. Not sure how to title this post .. I really do see what you mean, it is confusing…. What do you suggest.. Perhaps remove the post and start again..

OFF-TOPIC

No need to be sorry, Tesselaar.

I have edited a while ago the title.

I call it the client game: Confusion comes from instruction, then updated instruction, throw un-related stuff into the mix, not answering a question, then changing something and update again. Whoever worked with clients is used to this game. It will not vanish, so we need to deal with it.

A friend of mine has put this into this simple formula: Before you start a project, say out loud (!) in one sentence what you really want to have.

As anyone who works in teams will tell you, no-one can read minds, all we do in teams is develop a short-hand for instructions or actions instead.

So, could that one sentence allow others to work with? Is it clear, while only this information is given? While not seeing anything else, nor have the idea of what happens. You’re a teacher, this is your day by day routine, right?

So, the idea with the Helix is unique. More often than not, there is no extra control by default. Animation (in pretty much any package) means: you need to build a rig. To be able to build a rig, ALL parts must be known!
Otherwise, one has to start over and over again. Hence why I will pause here until I get the question answered I have asked above. You have read my post, right?

Cheers

You brighten my day with your wisdom comments..  I am on the other foot.. I am the student asking stupid.. emmm… confusing….. questions.. i tell my students all the time that there is no such thing as a stupid question. I just need to work out what they are trying to ask me.. Often, as with what I am asking here, I do not know how to ask the question.. Since I do not know what its all called.. But you are the teacher, and I am sure you have worked out what I needing to achieve by your new title.. Yes, squeeze an accordion.. That sounds about right.. But just the top half.. To be honest, I was expecting this to be simple. I think I gained too much confidence in making springs animate.

Now you are going to tell me that to “squeeze an accordion” is going to be very confusing .. And there was me thinking I had it sussed.. I am just playing and testing to learn C4D.. Nothing I am doing is for any real end use.

T..

Yes, Tesselaar, there are no stupid questions.

Like in, there are no mistakes, only gained experience. To add to that, anything that doesn’t lead to a solution, while exploring, will fill your creative library.

I know I can tab into your experience, and you spotted it! Change of roles. Enjoy it. Thanks for letting me guide you.

Yes, an accordion pleat can be difficult. But must not. However, the needed information is in the material: Rubber. It adopts its shape during pressure.
Since it has this elasticity, it kind of moves. So to just scale it down on Y would not work at all. The material has to go somewhere. So it becomes a little bit larger on X and Z but keeps the thickness in Y.
In the screen capture, I do that with some circles (1-5) as a guide.

Screen-capture and file:
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/Cpu9RDXrdp8ee34g0opLpiDr4Q4OMIVk4g1aLmmieur

https://help.maxon.net/us/index.html#TCAPOSEMORPH

One can only simulate a situation when one understood all dependencies and natures of the elements in the given set up. I call that the inner logic.
Since we talk about visualization here, at the moment we create a believable setup, the work is done. Communication of a function is the target.

BTW, I use for the Spline Natural or Uniform, as all other options would change the number of segments (“polygons”), and that is not really a good idea for animations.
https://help.maxon.net/us/index.html#OSPLINE-ID_OBJECTPROPERTIES

For a movie, I had to develop an accordion pleat that allowed for a movement with way more freedom. It was set up with Constraints, lots of them.
Since there was a vertical movement only needed, I chose the PoseMorph.

I asked something, asked again, and no answer. So, I assume that the Rubber will be not shown like in an X-ray.

All the best

Sorry, Dr. Sassi… Dark cotton clouds began to fill my head, where I quickly sipped into the land of ZZZZZZZZZZ.. My dreams include the C4D GUI.. ;/

I will try to follow your video.. I will not be showing the model using x-ray.. I really just wanted to add a sample of how soft form animation could be adding into SLC….  I just want to try do try something different..

24 views but still 50/50

T..

Wow, I key frames the animation.. I will try to add the rest of the model.. I got it from GrabCAD.. But I might make my own.. I will keep practicing on this kind of feature to keep it in my head.. I need to learn now to do it from start to finish.. Then apply the same with other models.

Thank you so much..

What I hate about different 3D software apps is the use of the mouse.. In Rhino I can rotate using the right mouse and zoom using the left… That one makes sense.. In C4D, I have to use the Option key, and then I get confused and move thing I do not want to move. I wonder if there is a way to change all that… With a Mac mouse, its great but no middle mouse button.. But I do have a Windows mouse.. So I might have to use that..

I modelled the piston rod and housing in Rhino.. But when I try to add them into my rubber it opens a new window.. There is always going to be different questions within the same situation, so I do not want to keep opening new post for basic questions, otherwise I would have heaps of post…

There is a beautiful lust to the texture colour in C4D.. I added a basic colour redish…. Its nice on the eyes to look at..

T..

Your animation of the rubber looks grate in Unity.. Proof it works.. I will be honest, I have a real HATE for Unity.. I have tried to install it on my Mac sooo many times it become frustrating.. For some reason there is something missing. I asked for help via my education email, responding to one of the many many emails they send out asking if I am going OK, but NO HELP AT ALL, no response.. So I removed it and told the high school not to bother and use Simlab Composer instead.. I asked the IT department at the school to try to get it working but they failed too.. I did a PD in the city where they were using Unity, but it was on Windows.. Ironically, the PD was about VR in Unity..

Real shame that SLC support seems to reject the need for the addition of flexible object animations.. We just try to improve their software.. If they allowed for a sequence to be imported, then that should work with a 3D PDF.. But C4D does not export anyway.. But the .abc might work.. The issue I can see there is the file size.. it might go in but it may not work too well.. I can export an .abc from Poser, but sadly it will not import an .abc.. If it did, I could export the .obj sequence..

T..

Its going to take me a bit of time to get my head around your video to achieve the Accordion effect. I am missing a step or two.. or.. :/

The final result is very real looking.. We have looked at the video we rendered from your file, and it’s perfect.. The way the rubber squeeze together keeps its form..

I might put the video in Premiere and try to export the frames..

May I ask, why are the circles added?? What is their purpose..???

T…

OFF-TOPIC.

Hi Tesselaar,

tmath129 - 29 August 2020 10:22 PM

Sorry, Dr. Sassi… Dark cotton clouds began to fill my head, where I quickly sipped into the land of ZZZZZZZZZZ.. My dreams include the C4D GUI.. ;/

I will try to follow your video.. I will not be showing the model using x-ray.. I really just wanted to add a sample of how soft form animation could be adding into SLC….  I just want to try do try something different..

24 views but still 50/50

T..

tmath129 - 29 August 2020 10:47 PM

Wow, I key frames the animation.. I will try to add the rest of the model.. I got it from GrabCAD.. But I might make my own.. I will keep practicing on this kind of feature to keep it in my head.. I need to learn now to do it from start to finish.. Then apply the same with other models.

Thank you so much..

tmath129 - 29 August 2020 11:32 PM

What I hate about different 3D software apps is the use of the mouse.. In Rhino I can rotate using the right mouse and zoom using the left… That one makes sense.. In C4D, I have to use the Option key, and then I get confused and move thing I do not want to move. I wonder if there is a way to change all that… With a Mac mouse, its great but no middle mouse button.. But I do have a Windows mouse.. So I might have to use that..

I modelled the piston rod and housing in Rhino.. But when I try to add them into my rubber it opens a new window.. There is always going to be different questions within the same situation, so I do not want to keep opening new post for basic questions, otherwise I would have heaps of post…

There is a beautiful lust to the texture colour in C4D.. I added a basic colour redish…. Its nice on the eyes to look at..

T..

tmath129 - 30 August 2020 12:20 AM

Your animation of the rubber looks grate in Unity.. Proof it works.. I will be honest, I have a real HATE for Unity.. I have tried to install it on my Mac sooo many times it become frustrating.. For some reason there is something missing. I asked for help via my education email, responding to one of the many many emails they send out asking if I am going OK, but NO HELP AT ALL, no response.. So I removed it and told the high school not to bother and use Simlab Composer instead.. I asked the IT department at the school to try to get it working but they failed too.. I did a PD in the city where they were using Unity, but it was on Windows.. Ironically, the PD was about VR in Unity..

Real shame that SLC support seems to reject the need for the addition of flexible object animations.. We just try to improve their software.. If they allowed for a sequence to be imported, then that should work with a 3D PDF.. But C4D does not export anyway.. But the .abc might work.. The issue I can see there is the file size.. it might go in but it may not work too well.. I can export an .abc from Poser, but sadly it will not import an .abc.. If it did, I could export the .obj sequence..

T..

tmath129 - 30 August 2020 01:58 AM

Its going to take me a bit of time to get my head around your video to achieve the Accordion effect. I am missing a step or two.. or.. :/

The final result is very real looking.. We have looked at the video we rendered from your file, and it’s perfect.. The way the rubber squeeze together keeps its form..

I might put the video in Premiere and try to export the frames..

May I ask, why are the circles added?? What is their purpose..???

T…

Seems all good regarding Cinema 4D. Fantastic. I’m glad to hear it.

I have put a lot of consideration in this post, and what ever I write, it is meant in a positive way.

I can’t find a question in any of your last five posts. Please note that this is a forum for questions about Cinema 4D. I’m really happy to look into your questions, but I can’t do a lot without a file from the other applications if there is a problem with such.
Moderator hat on: Please stay on topic, or open a new thread! It is really hard for anyone to follow otherwise. Thanks for considering. /moderator hat off.

VIEW PORT ROTATION

The only thing that comes close to a question (also not the topic of this thread) is the rotation of the scene. This is not the only way to rotate the view in a scene.
When you go to the Preferences:
Main Menu> Edit> Preferences
You will find an entry called: Navigation.
Please check the Camera mode
https://help.maxon.net/us/index.html#PREFSNAVIGATION-PREF_NAVIGATION_MAIN_GROUP

It is typically something that I think should be mastered before animating or modeling anything in Cinema4D. Navigation is critical, it limits otherwise the access to your scene.

Perhaps change the orbit: Reverse Orbit, you might be used to a different idea of how it should rotate.
Please note that I can’t even remember when I had a mouse in my hand, I use a tablet.

This whole reply doesn’t touch anything from the main topic, so I assume that is a case for putting the mentor hat on:
When I go through your post, I see that you go from one application to the next. I’m not quite sure what the motivation is, but it seems to be a pattern–following your posts. Seriously, let me suggest something:
Do not open any of these applications for a week, and do everything in Cinema 4D. If you like to learn it, escaping in other applications will delay or even prevent it—one week. Just try to solve it, without looking to get it from somewhere else. /mentor hat off.

3D PDF

Yes, no 3D PDF. I checked back down to 2006, no one has asked so far about export to 3D PDF.
Anyway, you might use this form to suggest this to MAXON, I have no option here:
https://support.maxon.net/index.php

Enjoy your weekend.

OVERVIEW:

One minute screen-capture with all five examples
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/zKp0DA1un5cXmd8nDZDsy1EGumK8NP5UZl26I4lsWgW

=====

PoseMorph Lathe [ANap]
Example
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/11JaD37zvkqELWn4DIrSffmw7kc6oJuIkS7kOhAnkkP

MoGraph Blend/Modify Clones [MGab]
Example
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/D28JPETtzxm6K6qniVUFUYs8hOW5HcQte8d7TAPdhZy

PoseMorph Loft [CAal]
Example
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/nxCErc4lNEoM1hPfaK8BSa9ErXs8kXQqdz5jGZDRzHG

Constrain Loft (Character - rig for an Accordion Pleat) [CAae]
Example
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/EwWxDZDnIwCfAtVDsNl5qsnhosjTzZl0UXouKmgaAM6

JOINTS Character tools [CAab]
Example
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/dCuDaafPclHjT3WedrkFJB8HWAsYeeVAVQ2P7C5eBwm

DEFORMER Squash & Squeeze (more to be complete, but perhaps easy to use) [ANss]
Example
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/hnNrSymIwDGOE6msoLgV35iGLyYDcpbF7siaa2AKGSA

=====

COLLECTION of all 11 files produced for this thread
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/Wm7AzqZuSpTEjcL5E8hccrDDOabELuVIrfANavvdpQP

I promise I will stay on topic.. You can kill off all my ramblings if you like..

I checked out your example files.. Unbelievable!! it seems that there are many ways in C4D to do what I need.. I just need to find the option that I can work with.. I really do not understand the use of those circle, they seem to play a critical role.. I am still tying to work that out..

Your MoGraph Blend/Modify Clones and your Contain Loft (Character - rig for an Accordion Pleat), have sliders which are really cool, so much control.. I see the PoseMorth Loft works by dragging the Z up and down… I can see you have put in a lot of effort to provide me with some incredible examples.. I am sure I will state many times, your efforts are truly world class. I really mean that..

C4D is blowing me away.. Yes, I realise I should just use C4D, and I will over the Term holiday.. I have been totally inspired and excited by your demos.. I am truly sorry I am so ignorant of what you are showing me… But slowly I am understanding some features.

Its just a real shame I cannot showcase any of these in the way I need, as in within a 3D VR. Nevertheless, I will still continue to gain skills in C4D, as I am sure SLC will add some option later perhaps.

No question for you at this time.. I need to get my head around all you have provided.. I will try to recreate myself..

Thank you so much.. Its all mazing.!!

Tesselaar.