A new version of Cineversity has been launched. This legacy site and its tutorials will remain accessible for a limited transition period

Visit the New Cineversity
   
 
Feedback on 3D models?
Posted: 09 September 2016 09:43 PM   [ Ignore ]  
Avatar
Total Posts:  41
Joined  2013-02-13

Could I get feedback on the 3D models I’m currently working on here?
Just to know how my 3D models look, how they are, and what I can do to improve them.
It’s just that Dr. Sassi, you have lots of detailed things to say about anything Cinema 4D related that I have questions about. I’ve learned much from you. I don’t get much advice from the other forums.
-I have no intention of advertising here, it seems quiet anyways. I’ve got other places for advertising. I see this as more of a learning place.

Or is this not what this forum is for?
Thanks.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 September 2016 10:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
Administrator
Avatar
Total Posts:  12043
Joined  2011-03-04

Hi Jamestown,

Thanks for the nice feedback. You’re certainly right to ask for advice before starting something businesslike.

Before I go into detail, let me just say this: I have always hesitated to give a critique here. First of all it is public, which kind of makes it difficult to say negative things, at least for me. I want to keep this forum here in a way that people feel protected, free and able to ask anything, without being judged. I started in 1994 to learn Pixar’s RenderMan. Which was at that time a command line renderer. The models had to have a “Bridge” file to be defined, e.g., from Archicad.
The first day I was lost, so I called the local support in Berlin “Panda Software” (which does not exist anymore since long). They nearly screamed at me, with words I do not like to repeat anymore. I was used to use computers a decade by then and was equipped with five degrees, two of them advanced, that was before I wrote my dissertation). I was certainly able to ask a question and to understand any answer. BTW: I was used to managed our CAD team and corresponded with Nemetschek about a problem of a more difficult nature successfully; Nemetschek was and is always great. In strong contrast, the little software shop. Long story short, I felt insulted.
THIS, was the point where I decided that anyone learning from me, should feel always safe, always respected from my side, because: being brave enough to ask anything. I’m in my second decade now sharing whatever I can with this community of 3D artists. I love to do it and yes, my way of detailing things is not everyone’s taste. But I keep it that way: a good base is all there is to be a good visual artist. If that base is not given, any progress will have no real weight and will slow down the personal growth.
I care about people who care about their craft. As I see, you do as well. Great! So, how can I help you without saying positive or negative things about your work?

Let me start this (finally) with saying, you are the boss of your business, you need to know what quality you like to deliver. Often price/time/quality is seen as a triangle, I’m not sure it is that simple, as it all three have different scales, and they are more or less relative.

What I like you to have is an idea about what is good or bad. To see what works and what doesn’t. What I think is good, is bad for someone else perhaps, vice versa. My suggestion, write a list of all characteristic your models should have.

Besides modeling, the UV’s, the texture, the organization of the file, the compatibility among all files, the option to go further with those, will be certainly part of that list.

The most basic quality is certain in the flow of polygons, is it organic or more random, are the polygons more square like or long and diagonally bed. As a model provider you should have an eye for this. If not check books about modeling, and read what others have to say, this goes for all 3D apps, so perhaps check other books than C4D based as well. (I have read a lot around 15 years ago in FormZ and Electric Image handbooks about stuff, not directly useful for C4D, but always good to know a little bit more than just about your own main app)

For what should a model be used for, static, animated or even “explodable” (as schematic or based on fracturing)

How easily can a model be used to change textures, or provide changes in color for certain things. Are Texture-Tags equipped with Selection tags.

Are all models checked about points, and illegal polygons, normals, etc. (I mentioned the Geometry check: Attribute Manager> Mode> Modeling> Mesh Checking)

A good model has not too much and not too little—in terms of mesh density (Check Patrick Goski’s modeling tutorials, you find plenty of good advices in his work). To dense is as bad as to rough, some might argue here, of course ;o)

Are you familiar with the new Subsurface options? How is it working with those?
. .
If these and perhaps other “points” are clear, the main idea is, how they hold up during rendering? What happens if the light goes extreme, or the material is replaced with “glass”. How can they withstand a Deformation, etc.
. .
Get some free 3D models, there are thousands on the web. Import them, try to work with them, try anything, make notes. It is like with movies, I love the good ones, but I learn more from the bad movies (in terms what isn’t working for example).
Compare the free stuff with what you would like to sell: Your offers must be better. There are many objects in the C4D Content Browser, check those out. Be picky, your clients will be more picky in some cases.

Finally, after all, are you targeting hi end, or more pre-viz artists, to make a rough separation. The better your descriptions, the better the relationship to your clients will be, business is often more about “expectation management” than anything else.


After all, you need that quality list, with things you would like to have for these objects. Never go below. Isn’t there as well a quality evaluation with different levels where you like to sell them?

Your clients will have a wide variety of uses, find maybe a 3D artist who is willing to give you feedback, like a beta tester, in return s/he can keep the models for his/her use. Perhaps start a private community on G+, and invite other modeler to “talk shop” with them. This will give you, besides a good feedback, perhaps also the option to create teams and take on larger jobs. Network is never a bad idea.

I hope that gives you some pointers to work on, but always, if you receive a critique from someone and s/he doesn’t ask about your intentions, run, just run, you will gain nothing from it.

My best wishes.

 Signature 

Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

NEW:

NEW: Cineversity [CV4]

Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 September 2016 02:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
Avatar
Total Posts:  41
Joined  2013-02-13

How you can help:
I think I’m familiar with the subsurfacing, the hypernurbs I use a lot. I’m going for ideas and artistic concepts.  My mats I’ve subdivided and they have 893376 polygons. Is that too much polygons for a simple mat? I haven’t used bodypaint.
Making simple fixtures for those who are making sci-fi games. How would you describe my fences? It becomes a really heavy file 1833984 polygons, that’s just one piece of the fence. Would many people be able to use small objects with many polygons?
-The first one is a piece of the fence, just 1 piece.

I’m a literalist, in my opinion I like things taken literally. It would be funny being “Sassy” if you’re making new tutorials, humor gets attention. Example: You could say “If your brain actually works, you’ll quickly notice that in real life people don’t walk around with their arms always sticking out to their sides like that”  To get an idea of being sassy, there’s character examples:
http://www.andpop.com/2013/08/01/the-25-sassiest-disney-characters-ever/ and being a doctor, you’d be able to heal the Cinema 4D characters if they’re having trouble walking properly or something. They’d be your virtual Cinema 4D patients.

“After all, you need that quality list, with things you would like to have for these objects. Never go below. Isn’t there as well a quality evaluation with different levels where you like to sell them?”
Yes, there is.
It seems like there’s not really much of a right or wrong answer with art. Just how useful the art is, and what people can do with it.  Some would even want simpler stuff.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 September 2016 04:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
Administrator
Avatar
Total Posts:  12043
Joined  2011-03-04

Hi Jamestown,

Check the options about SSD or HyperNurbs in R18. Lots of changes.
https://www.cineversity.com/vidplaylist/new_in_cinema_4d_r18/use_opensubdiv_smoothing_for_compatibility_performance_flexibility

Please note: my name is not sassy nor is my doctor held in medicine, it is in: Scientific Engineering.

I think we have exchanged a great deal about your sale targets, and I wish you all the best for your business!

Take Care

 Signature 

Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

NEW:

NEW: Cineversity [CV4]

Profile