Random colors/materials smooth animation
Posted: 08 July 2021 11:42 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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Hello,

Apologies ahead of time if I’m not messaging through the right channel here (private message or other method)...

I’m trying to get a good understanding of how a cloned object either with a random effector or field can animate more smoothly when noise animation is set. At times I’ll get a ‘pop’ on color transition from one color to another color assigned from a gradient color remap - and that is either from a multi-shader, variation shader, or color shader. Other times I’ll get more of a transitional, blended animation with color changes within the cloner.

Also, I did notice that sometimes if I load a gradient preset from the library that is not smooth interpolated, I’ll get the pop on color animation previously mentioned. And the smooth gradient at times alleviates this

I’ve researched and learned that the multi-shader can’t allow for a blended animation going from color to color? This is what I’d like to find out more about this and how random noises handle color animations in a more fluid fashion. It just seems at times a little unpredictable which is why I’m posting here.

Hope this makes sense and appreciate your help!!

Thanks again,

David G.

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Posted: 08 July 2021 12:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Hi David, G.,

Perfect place to ask here.

In fact, I do not reply to PMs/emails, as I deeply believe that a forum is an excellent place for that.

Every problem that is solved here will help many more people. Discussions behind the curtain, not so much, if at all. If something is super-secret, Maxon offers a 101 option, and for teams even more.

I did this over the years (private stuff), and it turned out to be an extra eight hours - seven days a week thingy. Only to type similar answers then again here in the forum. So, I had naturally to stop that. I rather spend my time here. So, thanks for your question!

In a nutshell, it is all about information flow. Things don’t happen just like that randomly. The question is, where does the problem is initiated, not where it shows up. This can’t be answered in general, not in a single forum’s post.

Perhaps it is the checkbox “cycle” in the gradient that does it or hundred other places. This is why I ask for a scene file. Attached here as zipping, or I provide an upload link. (other options are Amazon, Dropbox, Adobe, Apple, Wetransfer, and Google, I do not touch anything else.)

So, can you re-create your problem in a small file? Often recreating it in a new file solves the mystery.

To your question: The Multi-shader can’t differentiate colors. It is either the Brightness of the RGB average or the gray value of one R-G-B channel.

I will have a look if you can share an example. I’m happy to do so.

Cheers

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
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Posted: 08 July 2021 03:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Joined  2021-01-13

Sorry if this message is repeated, somehow my previous reply isn’t showing…

Thank you for helping with this and am happy that this could help someone else too! I enjoy problem solving using Cinema 4D and being part of this great community.

I tried sending the files but not as zips so hopefully they come over ok.

Thanks again Dr. Sassi for taking a look and it’s a pleasure meeting and working with you on this!

David G.

File Attachments
Dot matrix with grainy clone.zip  (File Size: 351KB - Downloads: 17)
Dot matrix with grainy clone2.zip  (File Size: 346KB - Downloads: 15)
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Posted: 08 July 2021 07:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Thanks for the files, jeff.schlotzhauer.

That was like a certification test wink What’s wrong with the scene?

Please note that I answer in a forum that may often be more detailed than you personally might need it.

• When you use “Light” as Blend Mode, the bright color will win, hence the flipping.

• To have any color values in negative will invert the colors

• I have no understanding why color-critical things are rendered in 8bit/channel. Not during production sRGB is used (Rec 709 for that matter)

• You used both Plain Effectors to feed color into the system. Use one for the size and the other for color.

• Never trust the editor’s view. It might jump a few frames to keep up. Always render and have a fast drive that can deliver the needed speed.

• If jitter happens and you can’t find an answer why, render with Sub-Frame-Motion-Blur and a 1080º shutter; if the color jitter persists, it is not the Cinema 4D.

• Avoid Soft-Shadow in anything animation or in general. It is not a “real” shadow (it is a raster and fake). A dinosaur which should show up only if a scene is loaded from v6 or earlier. wink If at all. Seriously.

• If you like smooth gradient-like animation from Noise-field: Leave the Color Shift Parameter at 0%, and map a color gradient instead. This shift is per channel. So if R is low, G might be high, and B elsewhere (like three people lost in a mountain landscape, running around) while all three are constantly changing. With that, you have three changing ramps mixing always.

• File 2 was about to modify clones, and the switching was expected. I assume the idea was that Mode Blend will slowly mix the materials. That will not happen. Look at your materials. They have only a few parts in them, but how to blend among them? If you need to blend just like opacity change, then you need to render the given gray values of the noise (in float, 32bit preferable) and split this in gradients based on the layers needed, then normalize the split sub-ramps and compose it. This could be done with one object/clone and three materials using alpha in that “split-normalized” way.

I hope I caught all the points. If you explore things, it is sometimes good to start over, as every parameter that was not reset during the test might cause trouble.


Enjoy

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004

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Posted: 08 July 2021 07:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Thank you Dr. Sassi!

Hahaaa!! I was about 20 versions deep into these files, millions of mistakes compounded - so this makes perfect sense in starting over to explore further. But honestly, all this is GOLD! Thank you - and no worries on the details and pro tips, for me it’s never enough! I really appreciate you taking the time in looking into any culprits. Your last bullet in discussing the 3 materials via one object is very intriguing - splitting up the gradient ramp into 3 thresholds. I’m wondering if the gray values get split evenly from black to white in ~33% increments…hopefully I understood that if it was your takeaway for this suggestion.

Thanks again - I will continue to revisit the thread for reference for a good while to come. This will just get me more inspired and I’ll circle back for sure if get stuck!

Thank you,

David G.

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Posted: 08 July 2021 08:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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You’re very welcome, David, G.,

Typically I can’t stop until I find an easier way. How about this one:
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/Wj5RQhAG2PHXC0ny6mPyKxAyO8eEEWBEKEnAm4gU3Ef

Please render, the Interactive Render view will not work here.

Please explore the Colorization Shader, and notice that I have set them to Blue, Green, or Red. So I use the three gray scales independently. Now the Color Offset in the Random Field is needed to get independent values for R, G, and B.

I have three materials, the two more on the right have an Alpha channel with the MoGraph Color, and I use one color each time here. So the Alpha channel is driven independently.

The third channel is used for Luminance Color directly. A gray channel is mapped to a gradient.

If there is anything simpler, and I get the idea, I will post, but for now, that’s it.

Cheers

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials. Texture, Panorama, HDRI, Camera Projection, etc.
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Posted: 09 July 2021 05:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Thank you again - I see the setup, and the animated noise is applied in a blended fashion as you suggested.

Thinking outloud here - So there is no color mapping info driven from the random field itself in this instance but instead it’s driving the RGB channel variance. I thought mostly all effectors pushed out grayscale information - but maybe it’s everything but the Random and Shader fields/effectors if I remember.

This is very stable and even copied the cloner moving it in the Y down below. This way when I render from a Top view, I create even more variance with the flat look of the spheres showing ones with an illusion of an animated stroke/outline.

Appreciate the exploration here since now I witnessed more unlocked with the input for the channels. I really think I’m beginning to understand the flow of info to and from the Random noise/materials!

Same here - I’ll be happy to share anything more I come up with too!

Thank you Dr. Sassi,

David G.

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Posted: 09 July 2021 06:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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You’re very welcome, David G.,

Thanks for the kind feedback and summary.

Have a great weekend.

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004

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Posted: 09 July 2021 07:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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You too!! Thank you

David G.

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Posted: 09 July 2021 08:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Thanks a lot, David G.

grin

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials. Texture, Panorama, HDRI, Camera Projection, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

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