Cineversity

Hi Tesselaar,

I hope you and your family will be safe. We here have been obviously never come out of the first wave. So, I leave the house pretty much never.

With DropBox, you can typically use another device, even your phone, if it has a browser option and be able to see what the URL shares. Yes, I understand the feeling of opening the gates completely. It would be nice to have always a summary of what is shred with a specific link.

I hope SLC can see it as an improvement rather than a critique. After all, any solved problem will improve the experience of everyone, sooner or later.

My best wishes

3am and I am up before the birds.. Only because I have decided not to work today.. Perhaps tomorrow.. After viewing the news reports of any new cases of CoVid.. We live in Ipswich Qld, so sadly confirmed cases have been reported. We are all on high alert.. Now I hear on the news 4 more mutations have been detected in Indonesia or Malaysia I think they said…. It that’s the case, a vaccine will never work.. Personally, I feel we are all in serious trouble.. and I am an optimist!!.. :/

SLC tech support are really excellent.. We chat to the CEO when we need an upgrade or we have found big issues.. He is very nice.. SLC offers a free education licence, for their Mechanical version.. I have tried to introduce it into schools but they are sooo very slow.. So I use their software to create content for my lessons.. Little primary students love interacting with a 3D object using the Interactive White Board.. Its a great way for them to immerse with a 3D object.. An image of a 3D object never quite explains what it is, since it is physically flat.. Perhaps its due to the fact that their brains might be tuned from birth to only physical 3D objects.. So therefor a 2D image becomes confusing.. since a flat 3D image removes the actual 3D form.. So I really want to take it one step further by introducing an animated 3D object..

Again I have asked SLC to include the option to import a 3D obj sequence. But this will mean I need to ask C4D tech to add an export 3D obj option.. For most animations there would be no more than 30 frames.. The file size should not be that high.. But the quality should be excellent. I have been shot down for suggesting using a sequence by those using 3D software, but their end output would mostly be Video/Movies.. But I need to place a 3D model into a 3D Virtual Environment.. Its a very different use of a 3D model.. And even if I use the FBX, I am still copying the timeline to create the animated action.. Which is really coping the frames.. which is the same as using a 3D sequence. So I do not understand their putdowns in me trying to use a 3D obj sequence. They fail to understand my end use..

Hi Tesselaar,

How About asking them to include Alembic, as it has become an industry standard.

Blend-shapes, as shown above, would allow for other options.

Again, I can’t discuss anything SLC, as I don’t know the application, you might check the specific forum of how other people think about this.

To my understanding, anything VR should have a particular trigger to start an animation, and I guess there are their ideas about timelines.

All the best

Well, that’s a thought.. I can save as from C4D as a Alembic, so therefore if this option were to be added,  I should be able to import the Alembic animation into SLC.. Good idea!! I will ask on the forum itself..

Tesselaar..

Thank you so much for doing this, Tesselaar!

Here is a piece of first-hand information about this format:
https://www.alembic.io

I also encourage everyone who uses SLC to make a suggestion here:
https://support.maxon.net/index.php

So Maxon can see if any resources should be directed to create an excellent connection to this application. I think the last few decades have shown that there is openness (in many ways) to connect with others.

So far, you are the only person who ever mentioned it here since I’m on board (Forum 1: 2006). If there would be more, that would undoubtedly motivate anything. I guess it is safe to say, to explore what we have right now, to get you working. (I had downloaded SLC last night, and when I have a little bit of time, I will see how far I get. (NO promises ).

Thanks for your nice enthusiasm

Cheers

Dr. Sassi.. YOU ARE BRILLIANT!! I went back to Poser, where I created my talking MM, and exported it as an Alembic and it opens in C4D.. But no texture.. I do not know how to do that yet.. I added the C4D file and texture into my DropBox same URL you used before. But the file size of the file is very small, so I am wondering if it piggy backs of the Alembic file and keeps the C4D file small.. So basically, if SLC add the Alembic formate so I can import, I can just save as from Poser and add into SLC for any taking toons.. This is absolutely the solution I was looking for. I have never used the Alembic format before since I did not know what it was since I thought I did not have any software that could open it.. But I have only just added Maya, and its a strange way to add the file anyway, so I was not to know.. I have only had C4D on my Mac for a few weeks. Its free for me to use which is very nice of them. Teachers do not have much of a budget.. I have many other things to buy.. So, it was worth while waking up at 3am after all.. I will check out those link you added above..

Thank you so much..

Tesselaar….

Thanks for the file, Tesselaar.

When you share a file, please check that all parts are in the download. I do not have the abc file here. The abc file is just linked by default.

File> Save Project with Assets…

Or just put the abc file as well into the Dropbox cloud.

However, I can see that the file has a UV tag, if you create a new material and place it to the object, it should work right away. Of course, you need to open the texture in the material, e.g., in the Color Channel.

If you add the abc file, I will take a look at it.

Cheers

P.S.: I haven’t tried it yet:
https://www.daz3d.com/daz-to-cinema-4d-bridge

OK, I will add it.. I just worked out that all I have to do is drag the texture into the scene and the texture is added.. It looks awesome.. So as soon as SLC adds the ABC file option, I am set to go.. This has been a great result.

The only think I am worried about is the file size.. It might be too big for a VR.. Not sure how SLC optimises.

I really appreciate all your positive support..

Regards

Tesselaar..

The ABC file has been added. The issue is, it’s 250mb.. :(

So basically, users of C4D, who needs a decent talking character, just use Poser Talk Designer and export in the ABC formate and a heap of the hard works is done.. Then add other content as needed into C4D.. It will be fine if all they need is a Video/Movie..

I checked to see if the FBX would work from this file.. Nope!.. So my only option is for SLC to add the ABC options.. I am sure they will..

Tesselaar…

Does the ABC formate support sound/audio..?? Am I able to add the audio into C4D video track??...

Tesselaar..

I added the audio into my DropBox folder.. We realised very early on, that young students could not remember their lines and their voices were not clear.. So we got them to type there words in OneNote, then we played their words aloud, at the same time we record the voice using Audition.. Then we just crop off the ends of the audio file.. We can have a male or female voice.. Pity there is no child’s voice..

Tesselaar..

I see your concerns, Tesselaar, regarding file size.

The main concept or Alembic is based on the idea to provide only the needed information at a certain time. This means the application is not stressed with the full load of a single file that needs to be hold in the memory. Hence it is not simple to implement.

As mentioned above, here is the Alembic resource, it should answer all questions
https://www.alembic.io
If not - please have a look here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alembic_(computer_graphics)

With that in mind, audio can’t be provided in that way, as the fps and duration (timescale) are certainly not in sync. I haven’t seen any audio.

What you can do is to harvest some poses and use a PoseMorph to get the audio that you like to use (kind of ) in sync. Hence why I stressed the question above if SLC can deal with Blend Shapes.

What I did in the screen capture below, is to take key expressions and use the “Object Manager> Object> Current State to Object Command” to have copies of the expressions (Key Poses). Added those into a ObjectManger> Tags> Rigging Tags> PoseMorh.

With a “shift + c” Commander, I called up the Cappucino, to bake the PLA (Point Level Animation) the Pose Morph should be not be enabled then anymore.

All the poses, except the one that holds the PoseMorph and the Audio Object, can be deleted. So you have sound and animation in the scene. This is then easy to export as FBX. (No sound!)

Screen capture
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/jOqC9FUxRjSpDSZBu7KLHm7NyisU3HuLVSTUPp59p87

All the best

The audio is a wav pm file. I have added a movie test. It rendered very quickly.. Heaps quicker than Poser can do and the quality is fine.. I just haven’t worked out how to add the audio yet.. But I am learning heaps about C4D.. It really is an excellent software app.. I can always add the audio after the ABC file has been added into SLC. I can tinker with it to make it work.. I have asked for an audio timeline to be added for a long time.. I want to add creaking doors as they open.. I am hoping they add this feature soon.. The only way too do it as far as I am concerned, is to group the animation and audio into one Action to play together. At the moment, the only way to add sound is after the door had opened. Like a delayed sound. Bit silly really.. ie. Steps… 1) Door Open, 2) Creeeek.. 3) Door Close..  4) Creeeek!! A VR world of delayed sound effects LOL.. Anyway, Simlab does listen to us.. Many of our suggestion have been added over the years.

I will try to give your steps above ago.. The more I use C4D, the more I will understand your processes..

Tesselaar…

OMG!! You are a wizz in using C4D.. I do no think I have a hope in 20 years in understanding how to work all that out.. LOL. Where did my words, “I like simply” get lost in the crowed..

I bet you have fun in using C4D.. I find with SLC that we love using it because we know so much about it.. But it’s very frustrating when we know sooo little. But hey, I have leant heaps these past few days with your help.. I would never have been able to learn as much on my own, and the best outcome of all is you suggestion with the ABC files, that’s just gold!. I realise I do not need to know all the features of C4D. I just need to know enough, and then pick it up as I use it more..

Simlab should provide some feed back within the next few hours about the ABC file format..

T..

Thanks for the reply, Tesselaar.

The audio is added to the Timeline. Open the Time-line (Main Menu> Window> Timeline Dope Sheet), and after any object (it needs one keyframe, anywhere), you can add a Sound Track (Timeline Menu> Create> Add Special Track> Sound.

Click on that track (the name) in the Timeline and have a look at your options in the Attribute Manager: to load the sound file and adjust some parameters.

Please note that the sound is placed based on time, and animation should fit. After many conversations between applications, you mentioned it, make sure that you get the same length. The wav file, while in synch, seems to be shorter than the animation.

The frame rate for VR is typically much higher than for the standard screen.

tmath129 - 24 August 2020 09:43 PM

The audio is a wav pm file. I have added a movie test. It rendered very quickly.. Heaps quicker than Poser can do and the quality is fine.. I just haven’t worked out how to add the audio yet.. But I am learning heaps about C4D.. It really is an excellent software app.. I can always add the audio after the ABC file has been added into SLC. I can tinker with it to make it work.. I have asked for an audio timeline to be added for a long time.. I want to add creaking doors as they open.. I am hoping they add this feature soon.. The only way too do it as far as I am concerned, is to group the animation and audio into one Action to play together. At the moment, the only way to add sound is after the door had opened. Like a delayed sound. Bit silly really.. ie. Steps… 1) Door Open, 2) Creeeek.. 3) Door Close..  4) Creeeek!! A VR world of delayed sound effects LOL.. Anyway, Simlab does listen to us.. Many of our suggestion have been added over the years.

I will try to give your steps above ago.. The more I use C4D, the more I will understand your processes..

Tesselaar…

To not start two events (animations and sound) at the same time is kind of strange, I agree. Again, I never opened the app.

tmath129 - 24 August 2020 09:57 PM

OMG!! You are a wizz in using C4D.. I do no think I have a hope in 20 years in understanding how to work all that out.. LOL. Where did my words, “I like simply” get lost in the crowed..

I bet you have fun in using C4D.. I find with SLC that we love using it because we know so much about it.. But it’s very frustrating when we know sooo little. But hey, I have leant heaps these past few days with your help.. I would never have been able to learn as much on my own, and the best outcome of all is you suggestion with the ABC files, that’s just gold!. I realize I do not need to know all the features of C4D. I just need to know enough, and then pick it up as I use it more..

Simlab should provide some feed back within the next few hours about the ABC file format..

T..

Thanks!
The first rule is always, what do I have, then what do I need, and how do I get it. In short, it is a question of information flow. When you look at any application, you first have to load something, then it should do something, at least show up visually or as “noise”. Often we need to change the information.

In 3D it starts all with points. Where they are, when they are. How they change. Where is the change stored, and can one access the information, and how can it be changed then. If you keep that in mind, the main steps are already much more apparent.

The underlying architecture might be different. In Cinema 4D, we focus pretty much on a linear output, the rendering. If it is one frame or thousand. Always the same, start to finish, only shopped off for render-farms, but put together, later on, to begin to finish.

VR and Game engines work differently; they are more real-time and interactive authoring apps. There might be a start to finish an idea, but it can have many paths or just one, perhaps one can be stuck in a loop for a while. In this way, the organization of information is more an idea of packages. These packages work as units (scenes and actions) and come to life when needed, not based on a rendering order.

It that difference is clear, the two different approaches can make much more sense, and the resulting architecture of the application is way faster understood.

Will it be a short and easy ride? Compared to what would be my question. If it would be easy and all available with a push of a button, you as a teacher would not be needed, but no one would agree to learn it anyway, as a push of a button: anyone can do; Anyone anywhere.

So, embrace the challenges, as you do, and enjoy the rewards when things work out. Remember, there is NO failure, only gained experience.

All the best

P.S.: check your private message, I left you a link there to your M&M file, set up with the sound, and ready to export in any available format of the Cinema 4D export.