Cineversity

Hello!

I am working on and off on a drop rigging project that I have been posting questions about here earlier.
I stumbled across this awesome rig:
https://vimeo.com/107545712#t=220

And here is one of his earlier prototypes:
https://vimeo.com/album/2310054/video/51648468

I was wondering if anyone here might have an idea about how to go about creating something similar in C4d?
I am trying to wrap my head around this but I can’t really think of any good ways to do it.
If only one could redraw a freehand spline and keyframe each stage then I would get pretty close.

The reason I am asking about this particular workflow is that I will be animating a water drop + face and I need to rig to be completely flexible and be able to deform in all kinds of weird shapes. Once the animation part starts, I want to completely forget about the rig and just have a a fluid animation workflow so that it keeps me in the “zone”.
I have made two major rig versions and tried setting a bunch of morph targets and so on but then suddenly, in the middle on animating I find myself missing a certain pose or something and I have to go into my set-up to create a new pose-morph or two… You can see that one easily looses the animation “flow” while doing this.

If I could make a set-up where I can just draw a new spline shape for the eyes/mouth/body silhouette and keyframe that I would become a very happy man :D
I am also slowly looking into the Interaction tag. That just looks awesome for a setting up rigs
But… I don’t think that can help me with the idea of drawing and redrawing spline deformed shapes.

Crossing my fingers somebody will have a great idea!

Franck

Hi Franck,

It looks like that the whole set up is based on predefined splines and their influence on the mesh. If one spline is active, it becomes replaced with the next drawn spline. How to set up something seems to be based on a script that takes the previous active spline and replaces it with the new one. It might sound simple for an savvy Python coder.

My suggestion would be to ask this question in the “plug in café”:  http://www.maxon.net/support/developer-support.html

I have attached an example. The Spline.change is that spline which needs to be activated, so it is “on record as last active spline, then you draw something and while clicking return, it becomes swapped out.

If you draw something new, click on the previous one and call up the command “Replace with” and click on the new one. Done. A script would perhaps accelerate that.  You need to use the PLA (Point Level Animation) for it, to store the states. I’m not certain if that was part of the clip/link.

I made some tests, and if you draw a lie, make a copy first, as “Replace” takes it away. Leaves me with the problem of drawing on surfaces… (I guess the step of projecting the Spline is against the idea of flow.)

Besides that, you might make a suggestion to MAXON.

http://www.maxon.net/support/suggestions.html

I hope my little example helps a little bit. Perhaps you try it first on just a simple plane and some splines drawn in front view on it. ;o)

All the best

Sassi

I have attached an example. The Spline.change is that spline which needs to be activated, so it is “on record as last active spline, then you draw something and while clicking return, it becomes swapped out.

This is a workflow suggestion for a script right? Because I couldn’t recreate these steps.

But the “Replace with” command is really useful in this case!
If I figure out how the last selected spline is stored in C4d I can probably hack together a simple script using the “Script Log” window that auto replaces my current Modifier Spline. Maybe I will need to look a bit deeper as not everything shows up in the “Script Log”.
(I have only recently began to look at scripting)

I tested a scene where I did these deformations on a plane (as you suggested) and is seems to work fairly well.
The problem I have with PLA though is that animation can only be linear. Except using a time track, is there a way around this?
(See attached file)

I guess we’re at a sort of “Alpha” stage for this idea. When I get it to work properly I will start to investigate how to project the spline onto the mesh or something similar.

Thanks for the feedback, Franck.

PLA, I guess that will be the same for the “non-alpha” solution. Time Track is nice and powerful, but yes, it will pull you out of the flow as well. ;o) Don’t think I would make fun here, I don’t. I certainly know what you mean with it. As a side note, the wish to have everything streamlined to focus only on the main “thing” sounds always appealing.
However, my idea what creativity is might not match it, let me explain, we are used to these “interruptions” and we stay in the believe that we would make great progress if we don’t have to do “this and that”. Again I certainly share and like that idea of work, as it sounds pure and focused.
I’m a firm believer in positive thinking and that the sub-concious does all the work, the conscious is more limiting here. Hence the idea that while we are in flow, the sub-conscious is full at work. But it is the time we “waste” on setting up the little things to keep going, when the sub-concious is very heavily “processing”. (It was for me preparing large canvas for my painting working back in Berlin. the time preparing was essential for me and lead me to be in that mode.  Needles to say I had over the decades lots of exhibitions and success. I really know the feeling.)
Sorry for being long here, but I had to say it. Sometimes the tools are the best “indirect” supporter for our work. I’m certainly not a friend of Presets and “ready to use stuff”, it keeps us out! We are the artists and not montage belt workers.

I see the problem in PLA and the problems to take the general Keyframe problematic. Having said that, I believe that [perhaps] the PoseMorph might work in a better way here. If you like to have it that way, two things must be created:
1. the selected spline must provide a projection area for the new spline, so you can draw in 3D. This sounds rather complicated to me to establish.
2. after finishing the spline, it will be integrated [via script] into the Pose Morph of that specific Pose Morph set up, as there might be many. all parameter go low or to zero, to give the new spline all the influence. The sliders of the Pose Morph are projected as HUD and allow to name the spline instantly. You might end up with hundreds finally. You can animate the new one with the sliders and mix others back in.

Whatever I think about your idea, there is some complexity involved and I’m not certain if a well thought out rig will work here perhaps not much better. Yes, you will get always new ideas while working and to include them might not be quick enough. But I see as well some downsides, as after a while there is a lot of information in the scene, which needs to be managed. So, having thought for a moment about the video clip you have linked above, I wouldn’t really want that solution, even if it sound cool and easy on first glance. It should be that you re-paint the existing spline. Perhaps a more advance camera deformer set up might help here much more.

All of what I wrote here is “brainstorming” in an early stage, and my very own personal perspective to things. Yours and MAXON’s might vary heavily from it, and that is cool with me.

Good luck with your suggestion to get it from MAXON. Perhaps all the problem I see will be solved and it will be a create.. great tool.

My best wishes

Sassi

Thank you for your annecdote about your painting experience.
I definitely understand what you mean and you have several valid points that is good to be reminded of!

When that is said, this particular idea of rigging an illustrated water drop is more a quest than an actual project that needs to be finished at the moment!
It has lead me to an incredible amount of intriguing technical questions that has wetted my tech appetite for answers.
I have traveled quite a few detours but I have learned so much!
So I guess what they say about the journey being the goal is very true for this case
But of course sometimes, you just need to finish things as well! Each project has it’s path with different goals.
For this project, I will aim for a rig that is very flexible and intuitive and welcome all the experimentation on the way!

Continuing our little technical exploration…
Is there a way to make a spline shape (Spline A) approximate another spline shape (Spline B)
Spline A and B will never ever have the same amount of points, but the tool/script/plugin tries it’s best to make the same shape with the amount of points and handles it has.

A workflow would then be (hopefully without morph targets):

- Draw Spline A
- Keyframe Spline A (PLA?)

- Draw a Spline B
- Run a script or similar that “copies” over the shape from Spline B to Spline A
- Keyframe Spline A with this new shape (PLA?)

- Draw a new Spline C
- Run a script or similar that “copies” over the shape from Spline C to Spline A
- Keyframe Spline A with this new shape (PLA?)

- And so on…

Thanks, Franck, for reading along.

If I would be aware of something like that, use B to shape A, then I would have said it. Well the only thing that comes close currently is the MoSpline, but it doesn’t create PLA information.

The script should find the the start and end point of a spline, scale it based on that and use the provided points on the old spline to set the its points accordingly. The total length of the spline can be then used to say point A3 is on 35%, so find the position of B at 35%. Which will work simple points. Bezier and B-Spline might be the more challenging to “transfer”.

Ideal would be the following, you have the A Spline, and you set keyframes there. A Tag or whatever creates for each keyframe a list in the Attribute Manager. There you just place the new Spline.

OR, a script turns each spline into the same “resolution” and with that you drag it simply into the Pose Morph.

So, I think this is all I can share, a savvy coder might produce much more progress here.

My best wishes

Sassi

http://nitro4d.com/blog/magic-replace-freebie/

Perhaps a first step. :o)

Thanks for remembering me
This is actually very useful as well!

Inspired by this thread and by all the other research I’ve done on this rig so far I am slowly coming to a point where I have started finding out really good solutions

And… With the help of a coder we’re on the beginning of a really cool tool that will help doing more improvised animation and repositioning of objects.
It might take a little time to develop though… But I am really happy about the concept!
Hope it will become stable enough at some point to share with community

But please… If you do come up with other ideas, I’m all ears!

Wish you well

Hi Franck,

I certainly have the memory of an elephant, thehehe, so I will do.

Sounds great, and yes I look forward what you come up with. ;o)

My best wishes

Sassi