Cineversity

Dr. Sassi,

The software I was referring to is Form Z by AutoDesSys, which has been around since 1990, and still going strong today.  I do mostly visualization for television/ movie sets.  So the finished product is more of a suggestion of what something could be. A lot of art director’s use SketchUp because many of them are not willing to wrap there heads around more capable software. So if in need a quick model, I may find one online to import into Form Z with its very capable file translators.  Often different objects which consists of many polygons can be cleanly separated.  Usually the files are in 3ds, obj, but it works on others as well.

I posted this same question on 4D Cafe, and was referred to the mesh>conversion>polygons to group command.  All this does is separate an object into separate individual polygons, which doesn’t do much to save time. In Form Z, select the object, hit separate, and bingo, done.

I typically do most of my modeling in Form Z, and movie it to C4D. Form Z’s texturing and rendering are limited by comparison.  Though it’s modeling abilities for which it has always been known for are excellent, particularly for architecture. Maxon ought to seriously take a close look at Form Z and learn a few things, especially because C4D touts how straight forward its user interface is. Form Z is very fast, accurate, and a lot of fun to model with.

With this being said, I really enjoy working in C4D, just wish Maxon had more of a vision for their modeling capabilities.

BTW, my Sunday was A-OK, hope was your’s was also.

Hi Gumby_Doyen,

(Edit: Deleted link)

In C4D there is only the option to have an object split—if the resulting parts do not use the same points in the first place. A split based on materials or selections is not doable with the “Expand Object Group Command”. There must be an information on which the split command is based on inside of the object and its attached parts such as materials or selections (if the mesh is completely connected)

There are options if you come from a CAD (Allplan or Archicad Application) but besides this, you might have a look into the Preferences>Import, what option for separation (e.g., by color or by layer) you have for a specific object.

Riptide is sometimes useful http://skinprops.com/riptidepro.php  In the pro version the Obj.-Import>Mesh Splitting Options. Please check the help manual for any further questions on that.

With your request to avoid selecting anything in C4D and have the object split automatically, I can’t see a way in C4D. My personal take is, what information would be used if there is one large polygon mesh, with shared points, and overlapping materials (decals with alpha-channels for example) what will be the decision of such an automatic, double the polygons, or split for sandwich parts of the objects.

However, perhaps you contact MAXON’s support or leave a suggestion here: http://www.maxon.net/support.html

Have a nice Sunday

Sassi

Sometimes I import models where all objects are joined together into a single object.  What I want to do is separate this group of objects into individual objects without selecting individual groups of polygons.  Using the expand object group command doesn’t have any effect.
With other software such as Form Z this easily accomplished with the split object command. I am a able to do the equivalent in C4D.
Thank You

Hey Gumby_Doyen,

Yes Form Z, I learned it a little bit in 2004 (via a VPN license, PXC), but never got really into it. FormZ has the ACIS engine in it, which I loved a lot in the EIAS Modeler.
During my presentation (2007?) at the “Art Directors Guild” meeting here in L.A., I got the impression that they love to use Sketch Up as communication tool. Reason enough for me to present the workflow from Sketch Up (which I learned for that event), and Google Earth models to Cinema 4D. As one of my favorite parts in feature film is set-design, I loved to show this as a preproduction pipeline example, with Sun simulation and other “stuff” (My first work on a feature was as Set-designer in 1989, a Wim Wneders Project /DFFB)
I agree with you, the majority of the 200 participating members liked this (now) Google app or just the pencil. Nothing that needs a lot of learning time was preferred from the ADG members. In a nutshell, I guess you agree with me, SketchUp and FormZ are complete different apps for a complete different target group.

Sorry that I got the wrong link above, I cleared this in my post. I think you are the first one who ask in this forum a Form Z question. However, I do not have a copy here, and I would like to know how they split it, what kind of information they use, to figure out what is finally a sub-part. I have downloaded the newest FormZ manual, but I can’t find the “split object command”, please let me know which page in the PDF v7 you are referring to. Thanks.

If you model it in Form Z is there no way, that fits to your workflow, for a organization that this splitting work could be avoided in the first place? Or do you import into Form Z already. If I recall correctly, they work with layers, which seems to be supported with the, e.g., DXF format, perhaps with others as well. The export options in Form Z show a pulldown menu with an separation option.

You might suggest this feature, as I mentioned above, but please keep in mind that the features of Form Z are targeting modeling, and CINEMA 4D more the complete animation pipeline (I know that you are aware of that, and I certainly will not compare both packages, but Form Z and C4D Prime cost the same (just checked).

I agree, more options are always appreciated, and if there is a lot of request in an area of the application, it moves higher on the developers list, so I was told. But FormZ, I can remember only one discussion with this application here since 2006.

All I can do is to try to understand your model (if you have a small example perhaps) and to get the idea what your target is. Not that I have an idea already, but who knows what you need. So far I have no information what you are missing when the polygon main object is split in parts (you mentioned that it works). I’m slightly confused with the post here today obviously, as the post from yesterday is now post #3 and the newer post is #1 now. Anyway, let me know about the page in the manual and if there is tiny example.

All the best

Sassi

Dr. Sassi

In Form Z. Modeling Tools>Organize>Separate. I import mostly .3ds and .obj to Form Z as templates.  Typically I’ll separate the parts, redraw what I need or want and export to C4D as .dae file which maintains scale and grouping of parts.  Also if you right click on the command in Form Z, you can pull up the manual page.

Perhaps the reason few people have mentioned form Z is because it’s not geared toward feature film or games, but more toward visualization. Form Z also has a little brother Bonzi in response to, and much better, than SketchUp.

Regarding the ADG; Maxon should revisit their office in Hollywood.  As a member for the past few years, there have been visits from the makers of SketchUp, Z Brush, Vectorworks (Maxon), Modo, and others.  This month is free Maya and 3D Studio Max training for a couple of days.  There is a real push for technology at the art department level beyond paper, and SketchUp. Occasionally Google Earth info is handy, stuff like sun position not so much, that the DP’s deal.  My opinion SketchUp has homogenized a lot of set rendering, and things are looking overly simple during the planning stage.  I believe art directors would rather deliver more photorealistic renderings.

I have attached an image of mine. Yeah, it’s quick, it’s dirty, full of flaws, but tells a bigger story than SketchUp.

Thank you for you time.  I hope to see C4D modeling become more than what it is now, I really like the program. Hope to see more of it in Hollywood at the art director level.

Tusch. Gumby

Hi Gumby_Doyen,

Not certain, is Tusch your first name?

I found in the manual (FormZ, v7) on page 316 the command, but it does not give me anything more than I would expect from the tool in C4D. So, even if I follow your lead, I can’t see what is missing. A scene file [obj] would be nice.

I do not have an understanding that this forum is limited to “feature film or games”, I hope I never made that impression. Being an architect as well, and have even worked intensively to melt the Allplan-CAD department and the architects in my last office to a strong working team in the early ‘90s, I certainly believe that I’m open to workflow things in many areas. I hope that shows. As an lead artist and office manager I had to melt the 18 people to teamwork, and at that time CAD was more for nerds than for artists. So I thought the CAD guys a little bit architecture and the architects a little bit of CAD (from my Archicad knowledge). In that way both sides were able to establish “rapport”, and we got a lot of my projects realized. (A quarter billion in todays Dollars to name a number). Team work was since ever a strong part in my life, but only if both sides like to have it.

Based on that and my education in Set Design, I loved to connect a little bit with the ADG. Your input that Sun-simulation is more for DP’s makes me wonder what I miss these days. Isn’t set-design supposed to be developed for a specific mood, and with that highly dependent on the light set up? If light isn’t a major part in the mind set of the set-designer, then I might have missed a change. Alexander Trauner was my favorite in the ‘80s, when I started to love that area. However, if light is not needed, then SketchUp certainly is sufficient, or perhaps just Cinema 4D and paint on some planes with BodyPaint 3D the ideas. But I guess, light is as before the key incidence of film, at least in my work. (Why would I spend money in the RED Dragon update, if light isn’t important anymore?) ;o)
You mention an interesting point, “homogenized a lot of set rendering” based on the use of SketchUp, which sounds terrible in my ears, as if the language and aesthetic of the artists has become unified. Did I got this correctly?

What MAXON likes to do there is not up to me, I’m an instructor here and not in the marketing. I think a training should be hand tailored for these great artists. To get there and do a standard introduction, might not fit their needs and waste perhaps only their valuable time. Perhaps the standards as introduction, but there is certainly a need to limit the average, and increase the specific needs. I have some ideas in preparation for this year, which would go into modeling of a complete set and use digital matte painting to complete the 3D environment. But I haven’t discussed the details so far, so no promises here.

Since the last presentation many things have changed, and C4D has certainly improved the light calculation since. Not only to mention the improvements towards physical rendering, but perhaps we move again more in my current favorite area—DP. So sorry if I digress here. But photography and cinematography count for me as the main basics everyone in animation/visualization should know—in depth.

Back to the files and separations, if you would share a little scene file [obj] which includes the main problem, then I’m happy to have a look into that. It might even help to communicate to the developer team. You can make suggestions there as well, which I encourage you to make as often as you have an idea that would improve your work!

Let me know if you have such a file, so we can create hopefully some progress here for you.

All the best

Sassi