Cineversity

Hi there

I have sculpted simple mesh. Only problem is that when I bake my object Tiff 32bits W/H 2048 all channels,from lvl (6) to (1). displacement texture around tail is messy.
As I checked my simple mesh, I realized that a few of my segments on tail have been in wrong position, I did not optimize the mesh before sculpting was done, because I thought all segments are on zero pozition X axes… correct symmetry position. 

Well I spent around 4/5 hrs on sculpting and as I baked my object, this accured. I do not really want to start from the scrach on repaired mesh. Therefore I would like to ask If there is any posible solution so I bake this properly set for animation purposes ?, or If I am somehow able to repair the mesh and keep sculpting applied ? hmm :/ One I am aware of is to bake it with Displacement RGB (XYZ Object) and that makes it look alright. But I am not sure If I will be able to animate it as ‘RGB (XYZ Tangent) is aimed for animation I think. ?’ Thank you.

Sincerely Jan

Hi Jan,

Tangent is the way to go for animations, as the XYZ will relate to the Axis system of the World or Object. Tangent is localized for the mesh.

If I get it correctly, you bake the object based on a symmetry that you had initially in the “before sculpting” set up, which causes now problems. The problems are there because the geometry creates on each side of the mesh—based on the baked information- now a problem. Is that correct so far, based on what you said.

As I do not have the model here, I need to guess the steps that might make it work. IF the texture bake in 2k (2048) was nice you need to increase the size. Before you bake set the Optimize Mapping to Cubic or Angle. I guess again, Angle might be the best for your model, but for displacement this might not matter at all, as these maps are really abstract, considering manual fixes later on.

Optimal mapping is supposed to create then an UV mesh for the complete object, and not for half of it, which should eliminate the problem. (If I got the information right)

Do this all with a copy, again, I have not your set up here, nor do I REALLY know the reason for the problem, again, I’m guessing here!

On Level 6 the mesh will be relatively dense, so to go into that and manually work on it seems out of the question. But have a look into it, check the normal directions and if there is perhaps something obvious.

I hope that helps a little bit

Have a great weekend

Sassi

P.S. I saw your question last night, but the local time was 10:26pm already, sorry for the delay.

Hello Dr. Sassi

Thank you for your respond.
I would like to attach picture, but I am getting - Error Message:  We are unable to accept file attachments at this time ! and c4D file is too big :/ I was trying to sculpt it to get rid of the errors, did not work. I tried bigger map 4K, nothing. I did not mention, but I created UV layout manually, did not use Optimal Mapping. But I tried OM as well. nothing. All is exactly the way you said. And as I set (XYZ Tangent) for displacement in baking process - anomaly appear. If I understand corrected If I set (XYZ Object) It would be impossible to animate the mesh with texture ?, because only that one does not show anomaly.

1. Initial mesh - wrong segment position detected.
2. Baked displacement anomaly with XYZ Tangent.

Sincerely Jan

Hey Jan,

How does the UV mesh look like—would be my first concern, after Optimal mapping (did you tried both?)

Perhaps I miss something, I do not know why the XYZ(Object) works for you and the XYZ(Tangent) gives a problem. Based on that, I would suggest to get in contact with the Support. Which allows you to share the file with them, without putting it into a public forum. Perhaps they know a workaround.

I’m not certain if an image would help here at all, however—the problem with that is AFAIK—known. Sorry about that.

I hope the support will find a solution.

My best wishes

Sassi

P.S.: AS I have no idea why the one and not the other Bake version works for you—I went a little bit into workaround mode. Just checking :o)

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My suggestion (for the time being) is that you create a copy of the object you have. Select this Object, perhaps freeze the Sculpting, and then use “Current State To Object” function in the Object Manager>Object.

This should provide you with a hi-resolution version of the object. The object that you have copied is unchanged, to get the original mesh back, just delete the Sculpting-Tag. You have now a hi res and a low res object, and the original sculpt-object (which should be untouched of course by anything I suggest!).

Create a new Material and apply it to the low res version. To the low res version: apply as well as an Bake Texture Tag (Object Manager>Tags> Cinema 4D Tags)

Inside of the Bake Texture Tag (low res object) you will find an Option for Displacement baking. Set the sub division there to the levels you had in the Sculpt-Object. Set the Methode to RGB (XYZ Tangent) and the hight as the scult-object has elevation of your sculpting.

Set a path for the texture, set to 32bit/c and large enough.

There is a field called Source, there goes the hi res object in! This is the central clue to do! The Baking will use the high res object and write for you the surface changes into the Displacement map. :o)

In the low res object’s texture you need to set up the Displacement exactly as you have baked it, RGB (XYZ Tangent) the elevation “Hight” and very important the Subdivision with the same subdivision as the Levels were.

Set any but the low res object to not render, so the objects sit not on top of each other ;o) . Then check the result. I have tried it three times and it worked :o)

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IF that has worked for you as well, you might do it again, but this time check the low res model carefully. Repair it, but don’t change the shape too much, seriously, be careful with changes.

This should give you what you need.

All the best

Sassi

Alrighty,
I have read this somewhere yesterday “roughly”, but It seemed to me quite complicated. I thought I could find easier way to solve it, but It would definitely save me a lot of time now as I run out of all possibilities. I am gonna try it asap when I wake up today.

I guess this could work ! Thank you very much, will get back to you with results !

You’re welcome Jan.

I did it in a few minutes each time, the duration is mostly based on the “bake” time.

It feels to me like the Sculpt-Bake function, just manual. As the bake time will be the same of course, it is basically the a very short procedural, but yes, written down it sounds like a long story.

Perhaps you give it a try.

Without any further information, it is hard to tell anything more.

Good luck :o)

Sassi

I thought this is it, but It s not working in this case, no idea why.

Well, maybe I missed something, but I checked it few times..
Funny thing tho is when I set in (Bake texture tag) subdivision correctly and height to some number according previous baked textures, XYZ (Tangent) was giving me 116, XYZ (Object) was 122 after baking the sculpt. Tried both values in (bake text tag), but It generates totally different number, guess It supposed to be like that. It is just wee confusing. I tried all combinations here I was able to think of, but nothing worked :/ I repaired my initial mesh segments positions, and I am going to start sculpting it from the scratch with some small changes in process. If you want to check on the file personally, It is 50MB file, I could send it to you in private msg, If it allows me to attach it in here.

Thank you for your help Dr. Sassi, I have learned quite a lot about sculpting process in these 2 days
Well I guess It s better to check the mesh properly before sculpting it in the future ! )

Sincerely Jan

Hey Jan,

A subdivision above six is already critical, eight might be a good time to start thinking about the initial model. Perhaps with a very low polygon model numbers such as 12 or 16 might in rare cases work. It all depends.
But any three digit number for the sub-division is a clear sign that something went to far.

The numbers indicate each time (for each extra level) a double amount of polygons in one direction, which means if you have a square, the next level will be four squares. Level 2 means 16 (squares) and Level 3 result in 64 squares or new polygons out of a single polygon. If you initial model had only 100 polygons—a Level three delivers already 6,400 polygons.

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Checking the mesh. Funnily enough, I woke up with that though. The only difference between XYZ object/world and XYZ tangent, that I can see currently is, that the object /world doesn’t need to have a Normal (I might be wrong here, but there is no data available for me to check that. The tangent method needs a normal direction from the point, which can be only given if all polygons around this point are “healthy”. At least that would be an explanation that would make sense to me.

There is an option that I encourage you to use before you start over again:

Set the level in teh Sculpt to zero.

Go into standard mode or switch to Object Manager. Go into Polygon mode. Select all polygons of that object.

From the main menu use Edit>Project Info and go to the Attribute Manager>Structure. Now you need to check if there are any polygons “Degenerated Polygons”. If so, de-select all polygons and press only the + button for Degenerated Polygons. These polygons need a fix, no way around.

EDIT: I checked now any possible case I can think of, with degenerated polygons (do I miss something?), I can’t reproduce this error message you get. So, all I can suggest—contact the support /edit.

All the best

Sassi

P.S.: perhaps until this is cleared for you, after the first action in sculpt, try to bake it. If you get an error message already then, you might avoid investing /wasting time.

Unfortunately I can not see any degenerated polygons there. Polygon count of the base object is 196. Subdivision lvl 6 for sculpt, thought It is needed for the details on face, guess you might be right and It is just too much. I am only starting with proper sculpting procedures here.

I have moved segments on my tail into the right position. It was to be honest only small values off, still strong enough to create small displacement anomaly. I guess only support would help here now.

Yes, use the options with the support. In the moment they have the file available they might see what happens. I help since nearly ten years in that area (educating C4D in public), and from that I can tell, without an example file, the guesswork takes much more time. I will leave it here to the support, and perhaps you can share the findings, so we can limit that problems for others.

Have a nice evening

Sassi