Cineversity

I’ve been working on C4d for years and since I’m self taught there are several simple questions such as: What’s the difference between Model and Object mode?

Thank you.

Hi Andy.Man,

The main difference is easy to see while doing the following:

Take a cube, make it editable.

Click on the Structure Tab to see the coordinates of the points

With the active cube, use the Coordinates tab in the Attribute manager use the scale tool—one time in Object and one time in Model mode.

Now observe the Structure (points) and the Scale (Attribute>Coordinates) while scaling the object.

The Model mode changes the absolute position of the points, the Object mode only the scale.

If you animate the object, once the points are all scaled down to 0;0;0 a new scale will do nothing, as many time zero equals zero. Which might happen during animation! Hence the information from the manual:

The rule of thumb is this: The Model tool is for modeling, the Object tool is for animation.

The same Help Content explains as well why this is relevant for objects in hierarchy (Parent/Child) situations, as the axis might not be in 90º to each other anymore of the wrong mode is used. Please have a look here:

Reference > CINEMA 4D > CINEMA 4D Prime > Tools Menu > Mode

In a Nutshell, if the scale values are all equal for the Parent Object, the axis system stays in tact for the child if rotated.  Which can be a decision for you project that makes or breaks the animation. It is certainly helpful to understand the idea of the Matrix and its twelve values (of four vectors) to see what happens in detail. To think only in three axis values might be less obvious, but I complicate it perhaps more right now. ;o)

To get used to the idea, recreate the Sphere (Polygon) and Cube from the example. In my experience, this is a hand on experience and can’t be shared just with words as much as doing it. :o)

All the best

...oh the hours of frustration I’ve wasted from not knowing this…

..oh the hours you’ve just saved…

Gracias

You’re welcome, Andy.Man.

Enjoy the extra time that we have set free now :o)

Okay, so now that I’ve got Object/Model figured out here’s part 2:

Say over years I’ve been designing a car. One file is the motor, second is the body, etc. There’s like 10 parts, but when I merge the files everything is the wrong size because I didn’t pay attention to the scale.

So can I rescale everything after merging everything or do I have to rescale in the individual file then merge the files?

Thank you.

Hi Andy.Man,

Simple question—many answers. :o) With no animation or with animation…? :o)

The typical way would be to use a Null (called up from the menu, not that “group objects” option, as it has more downsides than advantages), so leave the Nulls at the 0;0;0 position and drag manually all the parts that belong together AND have the same scale. Then set the “coord” scale parameters in the Attribute Manager. move the Null to fit parts in position.

The next option is, to use the Edit> X-Ref option and leave all scene files untouched, but group them in a new scene and scale/move/rotate accordingly.

There are certainly more option, via Instance etc, but that needs a specific inspection/need of your scene file. No rules - just a thought.

This was a close fit to the initial question, for anything else, please no chain question thread, as this becomes un-useable for others. Thanks!

All the best

Sassi

Hi Doc,

No animation, but would it be different than what you posted if so?

Animation is possible in many areas and with lots of options. It is nearly impossible to give a simple answer to that, other than “make a copy and try”.

One of the reasons I suggest to not use the “Group Objects” is certainly that with it, most animations will go “south” (as it takes the average position of all objects and that is most-likely no 0;0;0, especially not if the time is set to something else each time—for example). Most, as in, nearly anything that is based on PSR keyframes. In the moment the origin system (typically world) is replaced by a Null with a non zero [XYZ] origin, most animations will not function as intended anymore.

The opposite could be given with a pure XPresso animation, which has in itself many options again. Example: you create a formula based on units in C4D, to move your pistons of the car-engine. Then “you” scale the scene down, guess what? The XPresso set up hasn’t changed, and the pistons might punch through the hood.

You might think that sounds all very complicated or complex, no general rule—no orientation here. Well, what I tell you here is based on instructing this stuff over ten years and know the “cases” where general rules just fail. Hence, why I’m so careful to say something in general and normally answer only with a scene file {which means specifically]. Just because I have seen how worse it can go with the “I guess I know what you want, so do that”—and fail with it, after all!

Animation is a wide field and has many options. If it would be based on a weekend seminar only, the competition would be huge. It is possible to grow and start easy, but it takes a while to use it like a “pencil”—which I think is my idea of it. So the art can grow, and not the concern “how” it works grows endlessly. :o) 

My best wishes