A new version of Cineversity has been launched. This legacy site and its tutorials will remain accessible for a limited transition period

Visit the New Cineversity
   
 
Minimum, Usable Ambient Occlusion settings
Posted: 31 January 2014 04:20 AM   [ Ignore ]  
Total Posts:  15
Joined  2012-09-03

Hi.

I am trying to bake some AO for a Dragon I have sculpted. The map is 6k and my first UV tile of four.

When I try to bake my first map there is little or no movement in the baking even after more than ten hours.


I tried the following remedies


split off the head so I could just bake one UV island / part at a time.

Reduced the settings markedly


Normally I would just forget using AO but,the result on the skin wrinkles is well worth the hassle.

If someone could give me an idea of the lowest possible settings I could use, that would be brilliant.

Tia

Profile
 
 
Posted: 31 January 2014 04:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
Administrator
Avatar
Total Posts:  12043
Joined  2011-03-04

Hi Stu,

I assume your Dragon is very hight in polygon count. There would be my first suspicion for your render-time.

Just use a sphere object and extrude (preserve groups off) the polygons, bake the AO at 512x512 pixels. Just to have a reverence. Then try 6K. This will give you an idea for something “normal”. If that was rather short compared to the Dragon, then the dragons polygon count might be the reason.

You get certainty about that, if you render the Dragon instead of in 6k in 256x256 (1/4K). The 1/4 to 6K in square is 576 times smaller, it should be fast then, if the polygon count is not the reason.

Leave the Super-Sampling at zero for this - as long as we have not found something else as reason. (I assume you do not render the HyperNURBS/Subdivision Surface version.)

You might also check how much ram is free while the rendering is going on. Perhaps there is a bottle neck. If so, perhaps smaller and more tiles are the key to solve this.

All the best

Sassi

 Signature 

Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

NEW:

NEW: Cineversity [CV4]

Profile
 
 
Posted: 31 January 2014 11:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
Total Posts:  15
Joined  2012-09-03

Ah thanks Sassi.


I am now one third of the way through baking the map at 1k. I will put the map on a plane primitive when finished and render out at 6k in c4d.


I have a camera lense focus question though?

In another project I have a cityscape. The cityscape is divided into, foreground, midground and background using Frischluft in AE. ( 32bit depth buffers )

I have these great looking out of focus lights on the buildings. So using your depth of field tips I have created a really clean, good looking Dof setup. But am I right in assuming that when I create the illusion of refocusing the camera, that the Dof buffer should be inverted, so the sharp in focus foreground now becomes the most out of focus area, and the background the most sharp or In focus area?

Also in true depth of field should there always be fore ground blur, mid ground sharpest and rear ground blurriest? Or can you realistically have, fore ground sharpest, Mid semi sharp and rear blurriest?

Tia = Thanks in advance.

Stu.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 01 February 2014 12:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
Administrator
Avatar
Total Posts:  12043
Joined  2011-03-04

Thanks Stu,

Hehe, Tia, got it. ;o) The map in 1K will not really get better when the 1K is rendered just in 6K. Perhaps, so far I got your point correctly—if upscaling is needed, perhaps Photoshop does a better job, as you have other algorithm for that there available. However from 1K to 6K is 36 times more data—which makes me wonder if the result is of any use
(Funny that it is about a Dragon, as the RED Dragon has 6K as well… sorry, being a RED-Epic owner I couldn’t resist ;o)

Focus.

To split a scene in three parts is an idea to have the option to work with motion blur—and—lens-blur in a compositing application (... not targeting deep compositing here!). Typically the problem is that a depth—or—a motion map can hold only one information per pixel. With the mixture of motion and lens blur we have, more often than not, to deal with the need for more than one information per pixel. There is the problem (The physical Render engine overcomes this with no “sweat”!) Assuming that one area has the focus point allows then to mix the scene—with different blurs (MB—DOF).

There are reasons to work with blurry parts in an image. From a practical point of view, anything that moves fast and has no motion blur shows up a little bit jittery and/or rough. We are used to see different kind of motion blurs, and to name two main categories, one looks filmic, the other one looks video-ish. Both create an aesthetic that delivers a certain amount of information.

These are changing aesthetics, as we see more video (captured) based feature films these days, the term itself becomes blurry (pun intended). With high frame rates in the discussion for UHDTV or 4K acquisition some suggest already to go to 48 or 60 frames per second (some suggest already 8K and 120FPS). Which will change the perception again.

However, combining this with a shallow depth of field, will yield another option to create. Video was always more for Broadcast, and there a larger depth of field was wanted, to be able to move on without a focus-puller. Hence the small sensor size granted that wish “naturally”. With the above mentioned RED Dragon, the sensor size will be even larger than a typical Super35mm film, and the options to work with a shallow depth of field will be easier than with broadcast cameras in the past.

From an artist point of view, one might blur any information that doesn’t deliver information for the current scene. If done too heavy (because “one” can) limits the information density to push the story forward. Here as well, it might isolate the main character too much. All of that needs to support the story, not just to show that we can do it. To blur areas where the audience eye moves toward to (... always where the movement or light changes are), it might be frustrating to the audience to can not “see” clearly. Which is certainly normally based on a careful balanced decision, between pure aesthetic and cinematographically needs, to move the story (or the information flow) forward.

All in all, motion blur and depth-of-field based blur are great tools to work with, but the right amount is needed, not just maxed out as rule of thumb.

Your question is a cinematographic question. Whatever is needed to deliver informations, needs to be in focus. (Well—sometimes to leave it blurry might be “the” information!) If my material gave the impression that only the middle ground has to be in focus and foreground/background not at all, then sorry, that was not the idea.
If an actor moves from the background to the foreground, then the “rack-focus” would follow the actor, and with that change all “fore/middle/back-grounds” constantly while doing so, just to illustrate that with an example.

As a side note, if the “Bokeh” or light-blooming is created for the background (or elsewhere) the lights become bigger, less intensive (from a per pixel brightness point of view), but the background “seems” to be more illuminated. Which helps not only to keep the dynamic range down in the night shots; It helps to “power-down” super bright lights, and with that motion blur light streaks, which might look weird. If lights are beyond the dynamic range and focused, they are just white, if blurred (Bokeh), the intensity lowers and the colors can be “rendered” again (true for celluloid as well for sensor based capturing).

I certainly know that this is nothing that follows just a simplistic formula, like the one I described above, as each Cinematographer/DP will have his or her own idea how a story needs to be represented. (As well the overall look that is wanted… longer story)

Lenses are long story as well, especially Cine-lenses with so much more options (normally) than still lenses. Yet, sit with some DPs for a while and discuss “Glass”, you might wonder about the strong differentiations/opinions about the various lens kits they offer (I’m guilty here as well), so: I could go on and on about that of course here as well, but that was not your question. My intention was here more to open the mind for the endless possibilities given in practical lensing. So a simulation can be done. The more sensitive the perception to this aesthetic is, the better the representation in digital renderings can be, as far as the software can deliver here.

Any useful introduction of blur is limited on the “education” the audience had so far watching films and video. Those experiences changes naturally (just watch a movie from 1950 or so, you will get my point instantly). To be aware of that, allows to “tint” the experience your audience will have. My best wishes in using this wide arsenal of options!

All the best

Sassi

 Signature 

Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

NEW:

NEW: Cineversity [CV4]

Profile
 
 
Posted: 03 February 2014 05:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
Total Posts:  15
Joined  2012-09-03

Thanks Sassi for the detailed reply.

Maybe a tutorial on rack focus would go well with the depth of field ones?  The process seems to be very popular.

Ps - My Dragon is pretty red actually smile

Profile
 
 
Posted: 03 February 2014 03:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
Administrator
Avatar
Total Posts:  12043
Joined  2011-03-04

Hey Stu,

Funny, red Dragon, hehe. I can’t wait for mine, but even called RED, it will be a black one ;o)

Yes, a rack focus tutorial with a shallow depth of filed (sDOF): sounds like a gift to make. Well if one would exclude everything that would make it look real, then s/he would have only the need to say, move the point of interest and set the sDOF to your liking. Which would exclude nearly everything that makes it look real and as an result it might look clinical (or “C-G-ish”). There is a lot of image change involved if done in a way a practical lens works. If you take a Zeiss Master Prime and compare that with a cheap Samyang Cine version, you will see the difference. There are world between these two lenses, even both are called “cine lenses” (but one is ofcourse only a still lens).

I will have a meeting next week, and we will see how things will develop. My target is always to deliver well researched tutorials, especially when it comes to simulating the practical part of film with CINEMA 4D. Given the current development of the film industry, tons of new cameras/sensors and even more lenses, as well a constantly developing post production pipeline, things will change: Optically and aesthetically. I like to provide a complete picture of the work. I assume that the audience we will have in a few year is more “educated” and expect more than ever before. Simple and reduced simulations of practically effects will look like a cheat.  ... and simulation is practically our business here.

In a nut-shell, everything filmic and its aesthetic is my main interest here. So, your request makes me just happy, thanks for that. To deliver an in depth discussion to the theme would be my ideal ;o)

Have a great day

Sassi

 Signature 

Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

NEW:

NEW: Cineversity [CV4]

Profile