I’m a little (okay, a lot) stumped by how to accomplish something. I’m trying to reproduce the cool “glowing particles in jars” effect associated with the new Trapcode Suite campaign (see attached JPEG). The part that has me stumped is that I don’t know how to add reflections of the Trapcode Particular particles into the glass jars which are rendered with Cinema 4D. I can composite the actual particles using After Effects, but how do I then add reflections of the particles to the glass jars? Do I somehow head back over to Cinema with my After Effects file and use it as an HDRI? If so, how do I get the reflections in the right place? I hope I’m making sense here.
I can’t see an image, so I went to the RG site. The Banner image, right?
I think the simplest way to create this would be with light objects, switched to “Visible” and “No Illumination”.
To create a more pleasing scene, I would set up a few light sources with the “bandwidth” of expected appearances. Those then in a MoGraph Cloner Object and the Thinking Particles Group used in the Object part. The Cloner set to Blend, and with other Effectors (e.g., “Modify Clones” parameter active), including the Falloff adjusting the whole effect.
I used in the scene the simplest visible effect in the options, as Volumetric might take a moment more, depending on the density of your scene. Of course - I tested it in a glass sphere.
Side notes:
Perhaps a reduced (amount) set up with the same effectors but now the few light sources set to Illumination if needed.
(A decade a go or so I would have suggested to go with the Sprites, i.e., little images with alpha channels.)
P.S.: Having said that with the “sprites” I couldn’t let go of that, so I had to set up a scene. This is just brainstorming, but I guess the ideas in the file will perhaps lead to more ideas and finally to what you are after.
I left the “light based version” in the file, see Layer browser. To adjust the amount of particles, click on the XPresso Tag> Attribute Manager. Must be started from frame zero.
The Plain Effector blends among the three “sprites”. Note that the Ray and reflection depth is set very high for that, adjust when the final setting is found.
The Plain.1 Effector uses the Spline as offset to scale certain “sprites”.
Thanks, Doc! I’ll investigate all of these ideas when I can grab a moment. I’ve never worked with Thinking Particles, sprites, or XPresso, so this should be a great learning opportunity.
Doc, I haven’t had a chance to examine your files yet, but after rereading your messages above, I get the sense that in these scene files, you are actually creating the glowing particles in Cinema (which is really cool). What I’m hoping to do is create and animate the glass jar scene in Cinema, then take it into After Effects where I will add particles using Trapcode Particular. Then, I’d like to be able to add reflections of the Trapcode particles into the glass that was originally created/rendered with Cinema. Do you know of a way to do this? I’m certain that it will require 2 renders from Cinema…I just don’t know how to add proper reflections to the glass when I’m coming back to Cinema from After Effects/Particular with a scene that contains particles. Am I making sense?
I ignored a little bit Ae CC, on purpose: I do not have this version of Trapcode, mine is (sadly) much older and well, if I can do it directly in C4D … But I can download the demo for now, if that is needed.
Anyway, I explored more in detail this morning the v14/v3 and saw that they use Sprites now. What an interesting thing, since I suggested it as well.
I couldn’t find any option to export particles directly, since the sprites might be easily added in C4D, as shown above.
Your question made me uncertain if I miss something, a connection, a workflow, or whatever. So, I googled and explored the torrent of tutorials available, by clicking through them, but nothing. I checked the manual, what options are given in the new version.
My uncertainty ended up in checking the glass jars itself, which made me even more curious. Great work, but some parts made me wonder how they did it. Not that I like to bother people, but first hand information is key. So I had a little chat with the great support over there at Red giant Software. (A big thank you from here.)
This turned out to be wonderful chat, as usual with RG. So, the simple answer is, it was all done in Ae and with the Plug-In. A scene file is currently not available. The Post on that was all “classic VFX”, which means, the final result was the target. Which means, creativity and knowledge is the way to go.
With the result of my morning so far: you need to fake the reflections. Well that was the initial question, I know. It depends on the content of the particle, which kine of movement and shape they create. This would be then an element invisible to the camera, but not to the reflections. Camera projection seems to be the simplest way to do it. Perhaps a camera from the side for extra details in Ae.
Do you have a single glass jar and the particle result as footage? If the scene file has a camera and/ or movement, this needs to be included.
I can send you and upload link to your Cineversity PM, and we take it from there. Just let me know.
I’ll plan to create a scene file with just one bottle and composite it in After Effects with some Trapcode particles on Thursday morning, then render out the footage. With your permission and an upload link to Cineversity PM, I’ll then upload the AE footage and the basic C4D file with its camera. Sound okay?
The upload link is send to your PM, it is a simple DropBox link, set up for you. I will get an e-mail when something arrives there, then I check out what would be a good fit, this C4D file without the footage, I will share here, but once you open it, you can re-link it. Sounds OK?
Hi Doc. I’m working on a basic animation this morning, but am struggling to get the C4D camera that I imported into After Effects to play nicely with the Trapcode Particular layer. The C4D camera appears to be pointing in a direction where it can’t see the Particular layer. I’ve been all over the web and in touch with Red Giant searching for a solution, but am coming up empty. Do you have any advice about how to get the imported C4D camera to show the particles on the Particular layer?
Doc, I’m uploading a Zip folder right now containing my After Effects file and associated documents. If the Camera layer (this is the C4D camera) is turned off, you can see the Particular layer, but of course it doesn’t move with the C4D camera. If, however, you switch on the Camera layer, the Particular layer disappears. Do you know why this is happening and how I can resolve it?
It seems that any camera object in the scene, other than the C4D layer and the Particular layer disables the Particular_v3 effect. If you export a Camera, then the Cinema 4D space is given to the scene. Edit: In C4D the Middle point is the world, in AeCC one corner of the image. This leads to an head scratching relationship. I will try to find a simple way to normalize the camera that can be then Merged with C4D as Comp-Centered, which seems to fix the problem. If I have one, I post a little clip. (Please check post #21)
In the moment I extract the camera from C4D, the Particular Effect is out of the view otherwise. If the camera is straight, then half the comp size, with angles it gets a little bit more complicated. /Edit
Mark, I download at the moment, but one suggestion, I guess you have not used proxy files in it, nearly a 1GB… please smaller next time. Thanks. I have only an free account at Dropbox, max 2GB for all files I have there.
What I need is just the information, not production quality renderings. I should have been clearer on that.
My apologies, Doc. As someone who is trying to grasp so much new information these days, I’m finding it difficult to figure it all out. I never know exactly what to send and what not to. I’ve reached out to Red Giant to see if they can be of help with this issue.
Thanks for your help. I feel like a small island in a turbulent sea today.
No sorries needed, it was based on my limited “instruction” obviously. All done and gone.
I got your files and that is all I care for now.
While switching the [eye] symbol from the camera on an off and the Particular Effect is gone [on] or not [off]. Sadly the v2.2 is gone for now, thanks to the demo of v3—so I can’t check the old behavior right now.
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Anyway, if that effect is all you are after, then I would place a light source (eventually with a material on it) in C4D, to support the effect in the rendering already. So the context is in agreement visually with the effect composed later on.
So, the suggestion is: to set the AeCC Particular to the target, to have a reference, then set up the scene in Cinema 4D with the needed light source, to have the light the particles will create already in the rendering.
If you have the renderings from Particular as separate pass, and if the camera move is that little, place the renderings on a Plane and inside the bottle in C4D. Perhaps some animation of the mesh will sell the shot even more.
This is all possible even with the problems you encounter, just leave the eye icon/symbol off and render.
If you have the C4d file (it was not in the folder) please share, so I can explore it a little bit more.
