I am new to C4D. I was wondering if it is possible to control a tearing effect (cloth, paper, etc.)
using splines as “guides”, black/white texture maps or vertex painting?
The goal is to stop the simulation after a couple of frames -> then, if necessary adjust the torn geometry in ZBrush.
Unless there is a way to delete geometry based on custom splines drawn onto the geo (or vertex paint, b/w maps for that matter)
and then diffuse-grow the points in x,y,z direction to create randomly shaped egdes… is there?
Thank you for your response.
Best regards,
Michael
Edit: Thank you, but, unfortunately, the link to the video does not exist…
Anything more, as in “one push button” solutions, would require perhaps that you write a Python script, or find an plug in developer who does it. OR, you suggest this function to MAXON directly: https://www.maxon.net/en-us/support/suggestions/
I hope you enjoy exploring this option and get the results you are after.
One little note, in The XPresso set up, I use a formula “?($1<trunc($2/3);1;0)” the 3 is the number that slows down the progress. You can speed it up e.g. with a 2 or slow it down with a 4, etc. In the example files I have a = instead of a <, with the = you can keep the clones close to the origin, as they fly back “home” based on the Transition time in the Dynamic Tag. Which is just an idea.
To make the effect more clear, I have created a scene for you. Click on the XPresso Tag one time, and chose the User Data in the Attribute manager. https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/pPuzWC46l2Y2XHDN9ylviXNwCHUqEZQs2rN63rUdQNS?ref_=cd_ph_share_link_copy
Anything more, as in “one push button” solutions, would require perhaps that you write a Python script, or find an plug in developer who does it. OR, you suggest this function to MAXON directly: https://www.maxon.net/en-us/support/suggestions/
I hope you enjoy exploring this option and get the results you are after.
One little note, in The XPresso set up, I use a formula “?($1<trunc($2/3);1;0)” the 3 is the number that slows down the progress. You can speed it up e.g. with a 2 or slow it down with a 4, etc. In the example files I have a = instead of a <, with the = you can keep the clones close to the origin, as they fly back “home” based on the Transition time in the Dynamic Tag. Which is just an idea.
To make the effect more clear, I have created a scene for you. Click on the XPresso Tag one time, and chose the User Data in the Attribute manager. https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/pPuzWC46l2Y2XHDN9ylviXNwCHUqEZQs2rN63rUdQNS?ref_=cd_ph_share_link_copy
All the best
Hello Dr. Sassi!
Thank you for your efforts!
I have been away for the weekend, however I was able to take a look at your setup yesterday.
I tried to modify your c4d files to get the result I am after and also including a greyscalegorilla workflow I saw the other day, but to no avail..
The other option you are suggesting, using the created parts as clones in a fracture object, I do not understand how the outcome would resemble a custom tear/crack
since I just expect the edges/the vertices at the edge where the spline cut has been made to become distorted in xyz axis.
I mean how could one approach the process of creating a cracked paint, torn cloth or burnt cigarette paper semi-procedurally..
without alpha-map trickery and without ZBrush.
..Houdini only?
I will however suggest it to Maxon although I don’t get my hopes up high
since there is more generic stuff they are taking care of.
You ask about a very broad area, (cracked paint, torn cloth or burnt cigarette paper) and typically each would have a different approach. Your question feels like a request for a Swiss-Knife and all with a nearly one button automated option.
The idea of “I just expect the edges/the vertices at the edge where the spline cut has been made to become distorted in xyz axis.” sounds good and nothing wrong with it. But besides the R18 Knife options to cut based on a Spline, there is no option to make it automatically crackle, tear or even burn based on Spline information. Certainly, that would be a great tool to have.
For me, the main idea is the final product, how it looks, and how it is done is secondary, as most people will never know. But, I understand it is also fun to see it “live” and interact with such option, just for the fun of it. :o)
You ask about a very broad area, (cracked paint, torn cloth or burnt cigarette paper) and typically each would have a different approach. Your question feels like a request for a Swiss-Knife and all with a nearly one button automated option.
I disagree with the Swiss-Knife notion.
And, actually, I consider it the same principle in all three cases, especially, when considering that the (my) displayed end-result is a still image and not an animation or simulation.
This is how I would approach it in 3ds max, which is the first DCC I learned in my time as a student
(and then abandoned it because of Autodesk).
>> a texture based solution <<
Cylindrical low poly mesh with UVs
>> Turbosmooth Modifier (subdivide)
>> Vol.Select Modifier by b/w texture map (select vertices or polygons via texture map)
>> MeshSmooth Modifier (subdivide selected area only)
>> Vol.Select by same texture map
>> MeshSmooth selected area again (increasing polycount only in areas where it’s needed)
>> Vol. Select by same texture map
>> DeleteMesh modifier
WHOAHA This, the second flick, is definitely going in the direction which I had in mind!!
what I think is missing in C4D is something like a 3dsMax “Volume Select”-Modifier, perhaps also a “grow” selection and/or a soft-selection and a “a Mesh Select Modifier” to pass on information on vertices/edges which are selected to the next “node” for further operations
Do you mind sharing those two files for further examination. I can hardly make out the letters in the object manager
and my alleged super vlc-player is having issues with playing back your videos fluently.
But besides the R18 Knife options to cut based on a Spline,
there is no option to make it automatically crackle, tear or even burn based on Spline information. Certainly, that would be a great tool to have.
I think you misunderstood me. As stated above, I never had a fancy one-click solution like that in mind.
Just a semi-procedural custom setup to create gaps in geometry by drawing splines onto it (or by using b/w textures or vertex painting) for further manipulation in ZBrush or C4D.
yes, I have skimmed through his presentation, but I can not dedicate time to delve into all those presentation videos
since I have a pretty busy job and family. That particular spline technique you are referring to, however, is something I have already discovered in C4D.
hi all, I didn’t read the whole thread properly but wanted throw in my 2 cents anyway.
You can create a tear map by painting a vertex map which maps the weakness in the cloth. There’s vertex map field next to Tear in the cloth tag.
If you want to use an image rather than hand painting the vertex map (painting is easier and faster imo), then you can use xpresso and a cloner set to object, then iterate clone positions to sample shader effector and map strength to vertex points.
So if you really wanted to use spline you could use proximal shader as the shader effector input, its all pretty complicated if you want a dynamic tear map and not to just paint the vertex map manually.
Yes, as you said, you haven’t read the whole thread. Your suggestion is correct and addressed in the tutorial I linked in my first reply, which covers these common fabric practice nicely. But click on all the images in his post, well one or two are sufficient already to get the point, as I would say it fractal defined effects via splines on an object, and from there automatically.
Your reply indicates that you relate to the headline, which I have to change later: It is misleading. What he wants is a spline based automated Color Chip/crackle, paper tear and cigarette burn, etc etc, effect, with as mentioned, a fractal based “cut” line with varies outcome, as in dried color, paper or fabric. The fabric seemed more an hint and related to an plug in announcement he has seen for a different app.
All in all his request, if someone would get this right, would make for a very nice VFX tool, no question.
hi all, I didn’t read the whole thread properly but wanted throw in my 2 cents anyway.
You can create a tear map by painting a vertex map which maps the weakness in the cloth. There’s vertex map field next to Tear in the cloth tag.
If you want to use an image rather than hand painting the vertex map (painting is easier and faster imo), then you can use xpresso and a cloner set to object, then iterate clone positions to sample shader effector and map strength to vertex points.
So if you really wanted to use spline you could use proximal shader as the shader effector input, its all pretty complicated if you want a dynamic tear map and not to just paint the vertex map manually.
Hi Nikola!
Thank you for chiming in and providing your input!
Yes, I can pull off a vertex map trick like that in 3ds max. Within Cinema4D I am stuck though.
This, probably, resembles pretty much your suggestion, doesn’t it? https://vimeo.com/104573203
..but how would one manage to have the pieces “stay in place”?
..just achieving the cracks..?
As a C4D beginner, with a (more than a) full-time job and family, I don’t have the time to “push a little bit my explorer spirit”
and “experiment” for hours, as Mr. Sassmannshausen is suggesting, nor do I have to beg for c4d sample files on account of bad video compression, thus I’d be happy to pay YOU for
b)a little semi-procedural c4d-setup to create cracks/gaps in geometry (no simulation needed) by painting vertex maps onto geo (as you suggested)
If you are interested in my offer, please contact me at klimas[nospaceinbetween]md[at]gmail[dot]com for further details.
Also, you mentioned Houdini.
If you are proficient enough in Houdini and have time to tutor me a little, holla at me as well.
@Sassi
And, genuinely, thank you for YOUR effort, even though it seems that you see it beneath you to respond to my last post.
On a different note, no average-Joe new to Cinema 4D knows what the definition of a “fractal” is, hence, if you would kindly NOT RENAME my thread into [Fractal based], because there is no fractal involved whatsoever. Kindly, leave the name as it was.
THANK YOU.
You’re welcome. I think this thread has gotten quite out of proportion, don’t you think?
I normally answer to all, no idea why I missed this post. It is not in my e-mail notification. Sorry about that, no it is not beneath me, as I have already answered many times with great effort on my side, but such a projection (C.G.Jung wise) shows something about how you might operate.
Your reply makes me uncomfortable, as I certainly have tried to give you tons of examples here. I guess you have not even watched the Cineversity series about tearing fabric apart. Your reply shows that clearly, as it doubles the information that NNenov already gave and I mentioned it in links as well. Donavan Keith did such a great job here. (skimmed is not really watching it) So, you have no time for that, but I have to invest this time to make it accessible in a faster way? This is not how it works here. Sorry to disappoint you.
Did you had an additional question there? I did not saw one. What should I have answered: That the weight map was already mentioned many times? ;o)
Again: The tear effect weight map was mentioned/explained already several times. Looking now at your post, I did not see any addition to the series given here on Cineversity. But yes, I did not watched the whole hour, that would be a little bit over the top to expect. Sorry if I missed something.
The tearing in those coast like shapes is a fractal Noise like pattern, and showed in all these images [linked above] from you.
Fractal noise in Ae Cs4
Fractal noise in Electric image plug ins
Fractal Noise 3D in AEscripts.
etc.etc.
I’m not with you on that questionable remark that the “average joe” has no clue about that. To layer noise by changing the scale is a nearly 20 year old technique.
… and there is Google, who puts everyone in a minute into that knowledge. Use fractal noise and google it, just for giggles. So, please can we stop with this ego driven stuff here. Thank you very much.
As per your wish, I have take it out of the headline. No Problem. I had hopes that it clarifies things.
mjk_itb - 25 September 2016 01:08 PM
…
@Sassi
And, genuinely, thank you for YOUR effort, even though it seems that you see it beneath you to respond to my last post.
On a different note, no average-Joe new to Cinema 4D knows what the definition of a “fractal” is, hence, if you would kindly NOT RENAME my thread into [Fractal based], because there is no fractal involved whatsoever. Kindly, leave the name as it was.
THANK YOU.
Best regards,
Dr. med. univ. Mich_ael K_l_i_m_a_s
Ärztekammer Wien
(a real “Dr.”)
I will close that thread, as it seems you found your answers already, since we repeat here already stuff, it would be not fair to other to go on and on.
My best wishes for your project.
Take care.
Message was edit after criticized to have too much “yadda yadda yadda” in it. I hope it is better now.
This, the second flick, is definitely going in the direction which I had in mind!!
