Hi, Dr. Sassi, I hope that I copy/pasted correctly-if not please let me know. I have some dynamics problems. The “floating molecule” on the left, intersects with the “h” in Grapho. I have tried different combinations in my dynamics tag, but no luck. Can you please help me with this?, thank you, Craig
Thanks for the file, I went though all the part s and inspected them.
Both were set to Collider, and the “Grapho” text was set to “Grapho.Teke.bckgrnd.1.” (… to set the shape of the text to the shape of the molecule, I’m not following here. Sorry.)
So, in other words, no Dynamics were working at all in the scene.
Two objects both set as a collider (no dynamic) and one animated by the random effector. A similar situation as in the other thread, if you want dynamics, then you can’t rule the objects with procedural animation. One or the other. Perhaps a mix, but not both to 100%. One has to be dynamically set to ON, to make a collision work.
My Tip: Take the animation as it is let go of any collision, select the part that hits the “h” and make a MoGraph Selection and with this: set up a Plain Effector that only works on this specific Molecule in question. Adjust the rotation. I will share a clip how to do that…
Please advice what you like to have, but keep in mind pure dynamic and animation at the same time is exclude it self. Describe the final effect in words, I will try to find a working set up. OK? :o)
Hi Dr.Sassi, thank you so much as always.I am dissecting your thoughts now ( for some reason, I didn’t get a response from you in my email )
two questions I have at this point-1. please explain ” procedural animation”, are you referring to keyframing by hand? 2- are you suggesting that my only alternative is your ” tip” which I will try is the only solution? I thought that it would look cool to have a molecule, hit the letter, and have that contact effect it’s rotation/direction, it would seem more natural
basically, I was hoping to have the cloner/molecules bounce off of each other AND the words, should they come closer enough to the letters
Sorry about the failed update information, I have that as well from time to time. No idea what causes it.
To your questions:
1. Procedural animations are done via script or as in your case via Random Effector. For the set up with dynamic, it is not so important to differentiate, as in a pure form one can have only one or the other.
2. In your scene there was no working Dynamic to begin with. Two Colliders have no effect on each other. The tip was the idea to have the least change in your animation and fix the problem.
What I get normally in a scene, is where the problems are. With no further instruction, I go with the idea that anything else is as wanted, so not to change. If we set up a dynamically solution, the molecules will move differently.
Well, I could go ahead and set everything that is not intersecting as colliders and have some molecules as dynamic to get the effect.
For example, I explored your problem yesterday and tried even to place a “spring” on each molecule, just to see how far an simple set up can push it.
In other words, the more I know, the better I can suggest something. Besides this, I try to establish an understanding of the “inner workings”, which I write for all the readers, as we talk in a forum.
So, based on the set up, you have a lot of background molecules, which I think could be done purely on Random Effector> Noise animation. This could be cached to speed up the work.
Then drop in some molecules that have a specific function for your visuals. They can have an initial movement and then dynamic takes over. A hybrid solution. Control where your need it and dynamic where you want it.
My philosophy is always, that the rendering is the target, how I get to the images I’m after is secondary. I “feel” sometimes in questions, that the dynamics are expected to be a replacement of effort, or have to play the role of a game engine. That is not what I see in a professional environments, but yes it is fun to have this playful things from time to time. :o)
Hi Dr. Sassi, and thanks. No worries about my missed emails, probably digital gremlins ; ) Yes, I’d love an example, thanks. My objective, sorry that I am not clear, is to have a field of molecules in the background, randomly floating, occasionally bouncing off of each other. The one molecule that drops down in between the letters is a separate object . The one molecule, that intersects the “h”, I want to hit the letter, and that contact, affects it’s rotation/movement
Also, your comment about using a random effector, I guess as a child of the molecule, great idea, and I can use instances, I guess, but they would all move the same, correct?
May I have a sample of a hybrid, ie,” They can have an initial movement and then dynamic takes over” ?, or was that your intention, example wise?
Also, perhaps you can recommend a tutorial, that shows, how to use proxies in my cloner to speed up simulation
Thanks again. One would think, that after all of my questions to you, over the years, , that I’d learn to be more comprehensive in my questions to you , so you can be more helpful to me, well, I am a work in progress; )
I know it from so many meetings in my life, people have a clear idea about what they want. While working as an architect, sometimes people could see in five strokes their dream building and the next one thought it just a try to make the pen writing again. That is why I like a scene file, reduced to the bare minimum of the problem, no light or anything. So the pure problem comes to mind and the wanted parts in words.I have the impression that the communication and reducing of the scene often peeled the problem out of its context and helped to see things clearer. To fill a scene before it is working—well, it certainly means something.
Anyway, here is my suggestion.
• The first part is the ring (as logo or font proxy). The Project Setting during that state were Zero Gravity! I gave the molecules a little start movement and that was all, they were floating and bouncing. This was needed be be cached!
• The next step was to dial up the Gravity in the Project Settings and have the one molecule that bounces [the sphere] , which I then cached as well.
• As last step, the background animation with a procedural technique, no dynamic at all. It is for the background, and in this way it should not pull attention at all. Best to keep it out of focus. There is certainly more rotation needed, but not more action than the foreground.
So, three different ways to have for each part what is needed. To get all at once seems like a puzzle and the best way to waste time. Clients [or the artist itself!] likes to change things. The more separtion, the more control. Separation and simplicity should be in balance.
Thanks, I am in the middle of dissecting now. I do have another question; I made a sample scene, simple mograph text, I’ll try again, a dropbox; I keyframed a plain effector moving in the -Z; I was hoping that the letters would not intersect, but they do; do i need to keyframe, on and off the dynamics?, please let me know, when you can, Craig
Since this is a repeated problem, you need to understand that the URL you share here might work in your home environment (perhaps not): What you need is a link with drop box in it.
One thing that I see often, people have spaces among the letters/words, these need to have underscores. Yes, there are lots of people telling you it doesn’t need to be that way, but the amount of problems I had alone in the last few decades based on this speaks volumes against it. (Even Corel Painter12 has problems to start on a mac if the user name has spaces. Long and painful stories.)
I call this progress. Just a minor hint: Can you see that the “.c4d” part is not included, hence my suggestion to have NO spaces. Here I can work around it, as I see it. When I joined in 2004 the PixelCorps, this was the first lesson in industry standard naming conventions—no spaces—servers have sometimes problems with it. I keep it that way since, at least to show off ;o) —- Seriously, it is the bread and butter of our job.
Anyway, the file that I got shows me that I have to say it again, you have animation or dynamics in it. Every single amount of animation that is present in a given frame will take OUT the full dynamic option, hence the intersection.
Your file: Dynamics is off while nothing happens, then you move the Plain-Effector through it and switch the Dynamics on, when the Plain Effector stops changing things the Dynamics is switched off.
Besides that the shape should be Moving Mesh, you should normally see the Gravity working on them, but they do not fall down.
As long as you feed new position information in it, the situation is mixed and will be. Part of the Plain Effector information will take away the full dynamic effect.
I really don’t know how else to tell you this, you can’t have both with full effect. In the moment one has to take over. The motion or Force [AFAIK] is meant for the initial movement. If you feed new movement at each frame, you get a mix and probably an intersection. Let’s try this, with the scene files below:
I have set up a scene that illustrate the fight between the two. Change the FORCE parameters, while it is playing. The HUD is already in the view.
The second file has a Torus connected to the origin of the set up. You can see the inner workings better in this way—I hope that makes sense.
Thank you Dr. Sassi, I don’t use dynamics much, obviously, and sometimes I forget certain things, and I’m sorry that I sense frustration on your part. I will look now, thank you for your patience, CZ
I think frustration leads to demotivation. I guess my amount of work and suggestions here shows a huge motivation to move forward. The only little frustration you might sense (I’m not even certain if that is perhaps not a projection, because I do not feel that way), is given in the fact that I like you to have an ease of use with these tools, without the feeling to run into dead ends. Sometimes the only way is to split things up, to get a manageable scene.
With the endless options in C4D, even if I have read, seen, heard, that a full mix (100%+100%) is not possible: I think always, perhaps there is a little trick that I might miss to invent or find. Your questions have lead me here to explore over four days, given both threads, speaking of motivation :o). Not that I believe to find “the” solution to “square a circle”, but for each and every specific question here, there might be that “sweet spot” where it can be (nearly) established as wanted. I’m really sorry if there was at all a feeling that the source of this could be you. Not at all.
Anyway, you never should think that I’m frustrated with your questions or anything thereof.
I hope I was able to separate the scene in parts that are easy to manage and quickly to adjust without affecting other parts against the initial target. In this way I worked around the limitations and achieved so all parts needed.
If there is anything else, please let me know, I’m happy to look into it.
