Cineversity

Hi,

I am new to BodyPaint.  When I go into Projection Painting and go into the “Freeze 3D View” it turns dark, and comes out dark in Photoshop as well.  I notice if I turn the “Linear Workflow” off this does not happen.  Is this an issue with my graphics card?  I have an older computer my graphics card is a NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M 512 MB.  At my work the computer there does the same thing.  There the graphics card is a AMD FirePro D700 6144 MB.  Both computers are Mac.

Thanks,

Ben

Hi Ben,

While in Freeze mode, the main part is certainly that you can work in Photoshop.

What color profile has the texture, while in Photoshop?

While you are in the BodyPaint>Layers, where the PP Layer is that you like to save and use in Photoshop:

Go to Functions and Assign a Linear Profile. This leaves the pixel values as they are, but allows Photoshop to read this correctly. The other option is “Convert” and that changes the pixel values so it can be translated with any profile you chose to a given viewing device. Convert is dangerous, especially if used in Photoshop ...long story, but since the idea would be here to use Assign, we are fine here.

If you like you can send me the file (scene and texture) via the link I have send to your PM (Cineversity Private Message).

I will look into it.

Other than that, you can of course check as well with the support.

Let me know.

All the best

BTW, check the file in Photoshop, if you can read Cineversity clearly something is wrong within Ps on your side.

Thanks for the files, Ben.

The PNG had a cyan stripe in it, was that a transfer/upload error or intentional? (Just curious)

If you work in “Linear” the PP-Layer as the whole file has its values in Linear. You have used an integer/gamma based format to write this data out, certainly good enough to explore BP3D, but please explore anything but 8bit.ch. ;o)
Since this is typically seen as an sRGB format, you get the pixel values interpreted as such (gamma), even they are written as linear.
Color profiles, as mentioned above, are fixed “translations” of the values to be adapted from one to another “device”. If the wrong profile is assigned or assumed, you see the wrong values.

Again in this case any “Convert to Profile” action would be wrong, as it doesn’t solve the problem nor change the way you see it. Worse case, it distorts the values, as in Photoshop, Convert>Perceptual, which is good for delivery, but not inside the pipeline. (Like sRGB is not a good idea either as an inner working Colorspace, it’s the smallest, but I digress.)
“Assign” in BodyPaint3D as shown in this clip (you can download it) will work, at least here.

https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/kbheVrDfp43CkHqI7PwAp0CaUvBjB0jxg0mQpBnpF7w?ref_=cd_ph_share_link_copy

This needs to be done each time, as the “Freeze” produces a new file each time.

Linear/float images are more suitable here, and way more precise. A linear color space in an integer image is certainly not a good idea. If the texture is better than 8bit/channel, then use this. Anything 8bit/channel is very limited, not advised and given the fact that even in the ‘90s TV stations avoided 8bit material, with UHD and REC 2020 anything done in 8bit/channel might not longer qualify.
One more note, as I see it even in manuals in the wrong way, Radiance [.hdr] is not at all an 32bit/channel format - it is an 4*8bit RGBE format, horrible when it comes to colors. Open EXR is industry standard.

Keep in mind that the texture you paint on “triggers” the output format of the “Freeze Frame.”

Let me know if there is anything not clear, I’m happy to look into it.

All the best

Thank you!  The video you made was really helpful.  The one thing I found was I had to assign the profile to Linear before I went into Projection Painting otherwise it would crash on my computer.

I have another question.  Is there a difference between “Assign Profile” and “Convert to Profile”?  They seem to accomplish the same thing in this example.

Thanks,

Ben

Great that this worked, Ben, but weird with the crash.

Convert vs Apply: take any image and open it Photoshop. (Use a copy, just to be safe)

Under “Edit” you will find both options. Use the Convert and choose any other profile, if the image is sRGB use the ACES CG for example. While you do that, have an eye on the Histogram. Normally it will change heavily.
Go back to the initial profile (which one it had while opened the file), you should get a similar result, the Histogram changes and the image on the screen should not.

With the same image, use now the Assign option and assign the “Aces CG” to an sRGB, the histogram will not change, but the image will look like the problem we have discussed above.

Why is that?

With convert, Ps tries to find values for each pixel to create the same appearance for the screen as before. With Assign (if the wrong profile is chosen, as described above) you just tell Photoshop to use the pixel-information and deliver it to the screen based on the profile. It will look not correct, except when assigned the only really fitting profile to it, any other profile and the image is unusable.

To answer your question now, why is there no difference? If you convert something from linear to liner, there will be no change, or sRGB to sRGB. If you assign a Linear to a Linear image, or sRGB to an sRGB “coded” image, no change of course. 

Two more things:

The “Convert” option should be used when you understand all the options, to just click around might limit your quality. When you come from a huge color space (Gamut), e.g., ProPhoto, and the settings are not a good fit, then [perhaps] all values that will not fit into the new gamut of that profile (e.g, sRGB) will be changed, distorted or just (color-)clipped. To go back and fore with, e.g., “perceptual” will ruin after a while the data as well. So, being sloppy here—not a good idea.

The Assign option should be only used if you know what profile is the right one, as it translates the pixel-value to what is used along the whole pipeline, speaking of image pixels. (Data pixels, e.g., Depth, UV, or Normal-passes, etc, should not be profiled at all, and certainly not converted at any time.)

.

I know that theme is avoided a lot, and lots of wrong information is available, especially when people dumb a LUT (Look Up Table) on top of it to get things “right”. Lots of misunderstood stuff; Too much to clear in one thread.

In Linear space, keep it linear and you should be fine. From where I look at it, sRGB as the smallest Gamut/Color Space should have no place in a pro-pipeline at all these days, and with UHD (REC2020) and ACES (Linear XYZ) now, things will change dramatically. (People love sRGB as it is close to REC709, but that is like working in 8bit/channel only to deliver a “show” in 10bit/channel, which is just a joke from my perspective). Quality needs care from the start.

I hope that was not too technical, but I hope the Histogram exploration will clear the difference. Profiles are useful, and any pipeline without color management will screw up, soon or later. Not advised, not wanted, of course.

All the best