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Lens flare question
Posted: 08 April 2014 09:58 PM   [ Ignore ]  
Total Posts:  15
Joined  2012-09-03

I was wondering if it’s possible for an old style lantern to be bright enough to create a lens flare, if you were using say a modern camera lens in a Castle type of environment?

I have this scene where a camera is moving around a Castle, but I am curious as to whether it would create a lens flare as the camera moved by the lanterns ( flame inside glass housing type lantern ) Or would you possibly just see dust on the lens instead, from the resulting illumination I mean. Also could the illumination possibly cause a double flens flare as there are lanterns on both sides of the entranceway?


Thanks
Stu

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Posted: 08 April 2014 11:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Hi Stu,

I might explain now more than you need, but bear with me, as this is a public thread ;o)

Lens-flare is given based on the inter-reflections of the lenses, in detail: each glass element in a lens has the option to reflect the light back and forth.

This is not a static quality—in other words, each lens model will create its own unique lens-flare. (If they are build equally and coated in the same way, they might not differ at all)

As a rule of thumb, the older the lens, the more likely it is, that the lens flare is stronger. Basically related to the quality of the coating of each lens, coating these days are so much better, hence lens flare and stronger contrast. There are some people (today!) who take the coating for one or more elements of the lens away. (Duclos Lenses or Dog-Schidt have offers for that). Each lens old, new or treaded has a unique flare as I mentioned, and especially Panavision/Cinemascope lenses show a very specific one. Film-makers test lenses especially for that, or even record in a black studio those, for compositing work later on.

The light source for a lens flare doesn’t need to be in the visible frame of the camera! It can be produced by any light that hits the front element of a lens (hence the lens hood to avoid it). One of the main users in the last decade was certainly J.J. Abrams—who often even shows his manually flaring with handheld light source in “behind the scene” clips.

In the past twenty years it has become a “trademark” for CG creation, as it produces the aesthetic of practical camera work. However, if done carefully, it can provide a look and feel, that provides perhaps more information about the scene itself, than any direct light in the scene itself. I make a difference here in a) fog like flaring (more atmospheric) and b) classical lens flare, the line of many single colorful reflections (disc-like) which supports more the indication of the motion of the camera (or just simulates it)

A good camera work in the past was always based on keeping the Lens clean, wich meant to use Matte-Boxes with “French-Flags”, to keep the spot light out. Older glass had enough to do to deliver a contrast rich image based on the weaker coatings of the elements. With newer lenses, the look is more clean and perhaps sterile, hence the artificial flaring these days.

Either way, it produces an aesthetically effect—which should be used wisely, as it transfers more than just being cool. Film and animations depend on a temporal-contrast as well—we get used very quickly to anything in the frame, if I might speak as a cinematographer—with a love for motion graphic. Here is the reason why most film-makers, me included, have many lenses in many versions, long story, and not limited to flare of course. Each lens has its own qualities.  It fills days or years of discussion.

Dust by itself shows and doesn’t show at all perhaps. But if wide open (aperture) anything in front of the lens will show (eventually). You might have seen in the blooming (Bokeh) sometimes sand like inclusions, which can come from Black-Diffision filters, etc., also a long story. An increase in dynamic range is sometimes a target (as the blacks get more light, the camera can be shifted to towards the highlights.)

Long story short, as I mentioned it in some of my series, Lens Flare starts in the lens (sound logically)—which means nothing can be in-front of it. Here starts the problem if you compose images (CG with CG or Practical with CG, and Practical with Practical). In the moment you have your flare baked in the image, you need to re-porduce it very carefully for any extra foreground element. Sometimes nearly impossible to do in a certain amount of time.

As we have the luxury in C4D to separate such things, to a certain degree, in Multipass or several pass renderings, I would suggest to analyses the scene as well as the post production, and go from there.

To your question,

In C4D the light source by default will not produce any lens-flare. You might set a light source up to visible for an atmospheric effect, which doesn’t need to illuminate anything. Or you can set up Lens flare in the Attribute manager of the Light source itself. If there are 10 strong light sources, then chances are that there are ten options for lens-flares.

Again, get clear what you want and need. Just to place lens-flare for no reason, will water down the effect and you have to make it much stronger where you need it perhaps. It should be based on a decision, not on an automatic or always on. Too much never helps, the right amount is always based on a masterful eye.

All the best

Sassi

P.S.: I can expand on that, in a series, if there is enough interest. Starting with example among many lenses, captured with my RED Epic, and then discuss the options based on the practical exploration in CINEMA 4D and of course in post production. For film and as MotionGraphic enhancer. (Tutorial Request Forum :o)

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
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Posted: 09 April 2014 01:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
Total Posts:  15
Joined  2012-09-03

Thanks Sassi.

I am a bit of an amateur camera buff, so I understand the lens make up and flares thereof. I was going to do the flares in post ( AE ) using VC Optical flares or Knoll in floating point.


I will use animated dust slowly blowing past the lens I think, then parent the opacity of the dust to the brightness off the lights in AE


I still remember the days when just about every cg image had a huge lens flare stamped on it, that or a chrome sphere smile

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Posted: 09 April 2014 01:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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You’re welcome, Stu.

Yes, do it in post, keep the 3D data from the light positions (I guess you have that in mind) and with the lens-flare in post, you get easily the result you like to have.

As all of that will shift the aesthetic, the cinematograph (in terms of leading the eye of the audience) and certainly the dynamic of your results: Perhaps test the lens flare already in C4D, just for a still to get an idea.
Of course, I do not have the slightest idea about your targets, and I write more general here based on that. Testing it in C4D, will allow to change the overall lighting and increase the final result.

Just a link how detailed lenses are tested, and yes, I’m RED biased ;o) I got my first Zeiss lens many decades ago, and even I have a nice collection now (never enough! hehe), these RED-User threads have increased my knowledge. As I wrote it is an endless theme.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?73380-SALT-II-results-(Part-1-2-3-4-Bokeh-Breathing-amp-Flare-and-Part-5-Impressions)

Scroll down to post #5, after a while in each shot comes a light source in. The Flare starts before the light source is in.

My best wishes for your project.

Sassi

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

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