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Beginner lost in space!!!!!!!!!!!! Help
Posted: 23 January 2013 02:32 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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Joined  2012-12-05

I have spent hours looking in these tutorials and have yet to find things really geared to the mega beginner. Can some helpful soul please advise me on a playlist for beginners.

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Posted: 23 January 2013 02:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Well, i am now convinced that Cineversity is not for beginners. I wish they had told me that before I paid the money to use this place.

FYI, powers that be, create some tutorials for beginners in the correct version. Meaning, the latest version (R14). Trying to use tutorials for older version just confuses the situation even more.

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Posted: 23 January 2013 03:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Hi Racer108,

Perhaps you might get contact with the admin group (“Contact Us” button on the lower part of this side), as I think this might be “here” the best solution. I get the feeling that your are upset and not motivated to go further.

=====

FREE TUTORIALS:

A while ago, a few friends and I have created a very dense and fast introduction course, to give you some depth and overview. My idea was to have a Mentor group inside of the PiXELCORPS for CINEMA 4D. These are free tutorials and please check them out, my favorite is here:
http://www.cineversity.com/vidplaytut/textures_and_storytelling
... but you will find the complete series if you go to Instructor >Pixelcorps

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This is a common question and yes, we do not update first step material for each new release. Why? Besides that there is not so much change concerning the core knowledge, you might find that MAXON has addressed this by supplying the Quick-Start Manual and many tutorials in the Help Content. This specifically for people who make their first steps in this field. If you check this material, you will find that the Quick-Start Manual has no dramatic changes over the years either about the idea what the core knowledge is.
Yes, the interface has quite some changes, and it was since the first change a concern of mine that worldwide the existing content must look old instantly. No nice but it is not my advice to create a vintage layout either for r14.

I have given here http://www.cineversity.com/forums/viewthread/866/ an answer to a similar question that you posted earlier on. You never followed up there, I certainly would loved to help you in December. So, it might be the best you discuss further steps with the admin team.

What we try here, is to stay in communication with our members. If you like to stay, let me know what you like to learn and where your targets are. If you choose to get in contact with the admin team to look for a different solution, or to arrange some 1on1 training if you have a MSA option available, my best wishes.

All the best

Sassi

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

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Posted: 23 January 2013 04:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
Total Posts:  14
Joined  2012-12-05

Thanks, Sassi
I have turned to the internet and found a few tutorials which are helping me get started. I did try the Quick-Start section in the manual but obviously the person who wrote it did not check to see if the files it references were even included on the new CD rom. The tutorials tell you to open certain files which are not there. Hence, dead in the water.

You would think a program which costs so much would make it easier for newbies to learn.

Nevertheless, from what I have seen this program is really great and that contributes to my frustration. I really want to learn and use this program!!

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Posted: 23 January 2013 05:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Very nice of you Jeff. I certainly understand that missing files lower the fun to learn anything. I have to admit that I haven’t checked that point at all, as that is not really my part to do. Anyway, it’s not nice.

Have you checked the tutorials in the help content, did you encounter problems there as well? (Image)

I have had suggested to do a complete new “Starter Series” a couple of weeks ago, certainly with your December post in mind. There is not “Go” for this so far, and it might take too long to wait for you on that either.

Since 2004 I have though C4D in some areas, not only here. My concerns in providing material are based on the fact that it is not a collection of cool tricks and tips that makes good training. I learn constantly around everything along the Feature Film pipeline. Given that frame, I must say, that 60-80% of the material that I have watched (free or subscription wise) have flaws in their research or method. Yes, I’m picky with it, and it drives me nuts when I see material that has not a well though out base underneath, which is true for most of the stuff I have seen in the past decades all over the place. In the last years I have watched a little bit over 5,000 tutorials and mostly I’m not happy with the content. I watch it to find mistakes in the curriculum construction, and how they build up knowledge. I have certainly made mistakes there either, and the first couple of hundred tutorials were never used here for example, stuff from 2004 etc. ;o)

Having said all of that, since roughly a decade I think about on-line learning and how to design it. It is difficult if it should be in the “one size fits all” category, but my research tells me, there is a lot to improve. I do my “homework” and so I know that I do not just sit down and record some “starter training”. It would be simple to do, without focusing on educational methods, just doing the read-out-lout manual tutorials and some cool tricks. This is not what I like to do. I base this on my very own material that I use for “starter hands on training” and where I got direct feedback from people about. I hope I have created some interest in this series I have mentioned above.

Starter Training… Currently I work on a “Photography for 3D Artists” series. It will be over 200 tutorials. Having photographed professionally since several decades, I know that most “textures” for example are just one part of the equation why 3D looks like Computer Graphic, will say not good. It is not done with just taking some images or buying even this kind of stuff. I have really no idea how to split this up in Starter, Intermedium and Pro section, as there is no “starter quality” that I would like to share, and leave the people perhaps in the believe that is all there is to know about this subject. Quality starts everywhere, see alone Patrick’s modeling course. I guess many people have seen it, but who really went one time practically along? If the model isn’t “first class”, nothing will fix that later on.

In a nut shell, each part in 3D needs attention, it is a job, well—many professional jobs if you do all alone, and if you like to get good in it, it is not done in a short time. Cineversity has over 2,000 tutorials and we have not reached a saturation of that field. Will we ever able to do that? No, because pretty much anything on this planet can be visualized, simulated and animated in 3D/4D. Everything could be discussed, but we would end up in millions of tutorials. It’s not simple to find a common ground here, which makes everyone happy.
Hence the Starter material, which I tried to do with the PXC and my very own Daily Tool-time. But to go through several hundred tutorials tool by tool is a question of patience. To my knowledge each of these were download during the initial run up to 700 times a day. I had the impression that a core of 300 followed along over a span of three years. Many of these people are in leading position in the industry now. But it takes time. I try to compress that as much as possible and as much it is responsible—but there is exactly the problem.

The best solution that I know of, is a mix out of tutorials and forum. Just tutorials is not a good idea at all to start with. A reason why I spend time answering. So, when ever you hit the wall, please ask. Think of 3D as [1]modeling, [2]texturing, [3]lighting, [4]camera, [5]animation and [6]render (well post production as well preproduction). However these six main areas need to be covered, and I would start to go along in the way I have listed them [1-6]. I hope that is the shortest way I can support any orientation.

All the best

Sassi

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

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Posted: 23 January 2013 06:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
Total Posts:  14
Joined  2012-12-05

[1]modeling, [2]texturing, [3]lighting, [4]camera, [5]animation and [6]render

Check!  Will start that process.

Thank you

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Posted: 23 January 2013 07:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Thank you Jeff for staying open to ideas. I mentioned Patrick’s Goski “Modeling 101”. He goes along different ways to get results. Spoon, fork and knife or cup, perhaps not the most exciting objects on the planet, but since “day one” one of the challenges a modeler should be able to master.

He mentions as well on of my main ideas what is important to know, how to navigate in the editor view. To immerse with no effort into the “space” (I hope I can ask for 5 minutes checking the Quick Star manual again for that ;o)

In the moment you get modeling down, you get as well familiar with the navigation, and you might gain more over all familiarity with the application. Yes, Patrick puts quite a depth into this, but you will see that it all comes together at one point. My experience doing the Cineversity forum in the seventh year, have shown me, that most question can be broken down to the very basic elements. Complicated set ups are most likely just a large summery of simple basics. A reason why I stress this theme (basics) so much. It takes longer but you will see that you gain momentum faster and faster with this.

Enjoy the ride, ask if needed.

Best

Sassi

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

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Posted: 23 January 2013 07:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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Also you can check the wiki: http://www.cineversity.com/wiki/What_to_Watch/
This has a little info on some of the tutorials to watch.
I would also recommend any tutorials by Donovan Keith, his stuff is really great for the beginner looking to jump in.
Check out “the partybot” series…that is a great place to get started.

We used to have “tracks” which provided a little clearer outline for this sort of stuff, this was removed when we updated the site to be “search” driven.
We are already looking into ways to improve the first landing situation for new users.

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Posted: 24 January 2013 03:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Joined  2012-12-05

Thanks guys for the help.

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Posted: 24 January 2013 03:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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You’re welcome Jeff. I hope to see some questions soon :o) Never hesitate to ask, the only questions which are stupid are the ones never asked. Enjoy the ride.

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

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Posted: 24 January 2013 03:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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Modeling 101 started ok and then bam dead in the water. The first part of the Fork asks that you import an image of the fork. Well, nowhere is there an image of a fork to use. The instructor references things which only he has on his hard drive. Um…

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Posted: 24 January 2013 03:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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Hey Jeff,

Please have a look at http://www.cineversity.com/vidplaylist/modeling_101_-_pat/introduction_to_polygons

In the lower right corner of the image there is a Files button. This “package” contains four images.

All the best

Sassi

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

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NEW: Cineversity [CV4]

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Posted: 24 January 2013 04:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
Total Posts:  14
Joined  2012-12-05

Ahh…Ok.  Thanks. I was not aware that some of the tutorials come with files. Good to know.

I had already gone on the internet and found a fork image which was close.

However, it is still difficult to follow along because the versions are different and when the instructors says use this button and it is not there I must spend time looking for where the button might be. I have found this to be a bigger problem when using any tutorial not written for R14.

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Posted: 24 January 2013 04:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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Nice that you got the images. It is certainly much more fun to follow along with the same base material.

I just called up this tutorial, and yes, there are some changes, and I can imagine how that “works” for you. Sorry. As I pointed out earlier, to renew each year 2,000 tutorials based on that would be certainly an expensive effort. The annual fee would be then four digit$ I guess, if we would do such an constant update. I made the developer aware of that problem, but well, things change anyway.
Coming from r4 I have had my little “earthquake” like feelings over the years about those changes. But going back alone to r8, I found it is much better now. Not helping here right now, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

If an icon is missing or you can’t find it, let me know. I will explain the difference then, or Patrick will do. Please check as well the “Help Content” or the “Window>Customization>Customize Commands”, in that list you will find nearly everything. You can even drag the icons into your menus, and save the Layout to make it permanent.

Good Luck

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

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Posted: 24 January 2013 05:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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racer108 - 24 January 2013 04:33 PM

Ahh…Ok.  Thanks. I was not aware that some of the tutorials come with files. Good to know.

I had already gone on the internet and found a fork image which was close.

However, it is still difficult to follow along because the versions are different and when the instructors says use this button and it is not there I must spend time looking for where the button might be. I have found this to be a bigger problem when using any tutorial not written for R14.

Sorry for the confusion, please let me know where the problem area for you is and I will gladly make a note in the video description.

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Posted: 24 January 2013 06:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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I spend more time looking for the rearranged buttons and functions than I do trying to follow the tutorial. I think I am going to pull my hair out now.

Someone needs to create a better way…..  This learning process is extremely inefficient.

If the tutorials were designed and organized in an easy to use fashion I would be flying right now. But, there not so I am weeks behind.

Enough complaining I my part, back to the grindstone.

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