A new version of Cineversity has been launched. This legacy site and its tutorials will remain accessible for a limited transition period

Visit the New Cineversity
   
 
Suggestions for Creating Physical Mobiles
Posted: 27 September 2022 05:09 PM   [ Ignore ]  
Total Posts:  72
Joined  2021-08-07

I’d like to create something like this mobile by Alexander Calder:
https://calder.org/works/hanging-mobile/boomerangs-1941/

I could certainly do it statically and animate the pieces but I’m guessing that in such a workflow in would be difficult to create the gentle swaying of the physical reality.

I have tried with:
C4D Bullet but it seems to lack connectors
C4D Simulation but it seems to lack rigid bodies
INSYDIUM Bullet and can almost get something but the connectors connect the center-of-gravity of the two objects. You can move the center-of-gravity but that still wouldn’t allow two connections each at the end of a long rod (rigid body).

I would appreciate any suggestions on how I might proceed.

Thanks,
Greg

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 September 2022 06:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
Administrator
Avatar
Total Posts:  12043
Joined  2011-03-04

Hi Greg,

I believe that the Ragdoll Connector is the way to go, while I prefer to set this up mainly manually as a rig.

https://www.cineversity.com/vidplaytut/connector_basics_ragdoll

Here is a quick Ragdoll demo: (press play)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sqokxkc40lefcnj/CV3_2023_drs_22_DYcm_01.c4d.zip?dl=0

I would go with a Null Rig and not use it for the main work because the dynamics are simple: The option to 100% art direct this and simplicity.
The problem with dynamic and more complex, dependent setups is in the chain reaction. A Calder setup typically builds up on three to four or even more elements in a hierarchy. Each movement ripples through from the top, and every little error, will be multiplied down the hierarchy in the same way.
Perhaps set up a long fabric to get a reference for the motion that wind or other objects would introduce.

All the best

 Signature 

Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

NEW:

NEW: Cineversity [CV4]

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 September 2022 09:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
Total Posts:  72
Joined  2021-08-07

Oh my! I did not know about the Connector object. And, it’s beautiful. Very intuitive. Thank you very much!

I think in the end I will induce only very gentle movement, hopefully reducing the instabilities introduced by the simulation engine.


When you say, ‘Null rig’ what do you mean? Also by, ‘not use it for the main work’ ?


So much in C4D!

G

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 September 2022 03:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
Administrator
Avatar
Total Posts:  12043
Joined  2011-03-04

Hi Greg,

Here is a Null rig, just a hierarchy of Nulls, gently animated (manually). I have added one dynamic object to it, as example.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y6e1zp76by33gyh/CV3_2023_drs_22_DYcm_11.c4d.zip?dl=0

Note that I placed a wind object in it; otherwise, the danger is that the little movement is seen as dynamic noise and the simulation shuts off.

I have left on the Visualization from the Attribute Manager> Project> Bullet> Visualization; this should help you to see what is going on.

Gravity is lower.

All the best

 Signature 

Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

NEW:

NEW: Cineversity [CV4]

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 September 2022 04:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
Administrator
Avatar
Total Posts:  12043
Joined  2011-03-04

P.S.: Here is a setup that I used back in CV1 (Sassi’s playground, way over a decade ago. wink

The idea is to use a Tracer to create a Spline with a vertice/point exactly where a clone/dynamic should be.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zomfsjp5ae8r94j/CV3_2023_drs_22_DYcm_12.c4d.zip?dl=0

 Signature 

Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

NEW:

NEW: Cineversity [CV4]

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 September 2022 01:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
Total Posts:  72
Joined  2021-08-07

Thanks Dr. Sassi!

I understand now.

I’m trying to construct something purely with bullet simulation. Not sure it’ll work as my experiments so far have been very unstable. I have noticed that if the bounding boxes of two Rigid Bodies intersect the instabilities are great. This somewhat limits the kinds of structures I can connect. E.g., linked tori do not behave well since the bounding boxes of adjacent tori intersect. I am now looking at some sort of rope/cable/string connecting the crossbars and ornaments.

G

P.S. Can you confirm that the newer Simulation system in C4D (Rope/Rope Belt, etc.) does not interact with the Bullet simulation?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 September 2022 03:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
Administrator
Avatar
Total Posts:  12043
Joined  2011-03-04

Hi Greg,

The problem I see is that simulations of any kind are always designed to be efficient. (Like Global illumination is not physically correct, it is physically plausible, as light has no problems bouncing a billion times around by itself. If we would simulate that with a standard computer, it might take years.)

With this example, we try to find a sweet spot that satisfies the eye. Well, it is better than that, but I like to make a point. From that perspective, each iteration will be less precise, like a copy of a copy, which can be counteracted in many ways.

First, you set up the main hanger; since these are always in balance, it doesn’t matter how much weight is hanging on each side since the balance determines the main idea. So the first central part can be set in motion, cached, baked, or exported (Alembic), and re-imported.

Which eliminates any dynamic but leaves the results of the dynamic. (At the moment, it is animation data of any kind; the objects can be made into Collision objects or just left alone.)

The next iteration builds up on stable data. The new dynamic can be backed, cached or exported, and re-imported. Again we have on level two stable data. (For these step by step, a good idea is to set the Dampening high and then quickly lower, which tames the system.)

Then we build levels three, four, five, or how many level A. Calder had in his work? Some go beyond a dozen.

I know that the system is more complex than that. The last element in the mobile will affect the whole system if one blows shortly on that element, which would move the whole system and, in return, the initiator of that movement. This is how I read Calder’s work as an artist (meaning) and from the point of a social structure (consequence) as an architect reading static/dynamic to create. A. Calder would have ignored that, for him it was an object. Early on he used a motor to drive his objects, after doing it manually. later the motor idea was left, and natural movements were used. So, the idea to animate here one or the other way is plausible: Artist’s intention is certainly key.

Of course, we can look at it in many ways, but the complexity is given, no matter what, and that is kind of the problem for the system here.

So far, I have had no luck getting access to get these two systems working bilaterally. The Bullet system has XPresso nodes, so you could get some information from there, a one-way road.

Bounding boxes are based on the Shape you set up. If you do not specify those, a flat sphere represents your Torus. Bullet allows for Proxy models, low poly, to save time.

If your setup shows instabilities, perhaps go to the Expert Tab and change the steps/ iterations.

Enjoy your exploration; as usual, there is no failure, only gained experience.

 Signature 

Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

NEW:

NEW: Cineversity [CV4]

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 September 2022 02:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
Total Posts:  72
Joined  2021-08-07

I have found a set of values for the connectors, tags, and Project settings that result in a stable system and that has gentle movements. As you say the values do not reflect the physical world but result in natural looking balance and movement.

The key insights: Set connectors to ignore collisions and use angular restriction to prevent the meshes from passing through each other, set a custom mass location to the point of suspension ((0,0,0) put’s the CG at the axis location so it’s easy to move the GC around), and reduce gravity.

Here is the project file.
https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0cfAoyTCo-zp7zbS3I_owRwcw#ForCineV-29Sep22

G

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 September 2022 04:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
Administrator
Avatar
Total Posts:  12043
Joined  2011-03-04

Thank you very much, Greg,

This looks great and has the “hypnotic motion” that Calder has in his work while defining space. Love it.

Yes, the Mass location is critical, and I hope a tip many people reading along will appreciate.

Enjoy your project

 Signature 

Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

NEW:

NEW: Cineversity [CV4]

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 October 2022 08:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
Total Posts:  72
Joined  2021-08-07

Here’s the result of this work. Ultimately, I ended up using X-Particles Bullet system.
Thanks again !!

https://www.behance.net/gallery/154218039/Mobiles-In-The-Sytle-of-Alexander-Caulder

Greg

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 October 2022 09:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
Administrator
Avatar
Total Posts:  12043
Joined  2011-03-04

Thank you very much, Greg.

Excellent work; thanks for sharing. It is always great to see what the outcome is.

Congratulations

All the best

 Signature 

Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

NEW:

NEW: Cineversity [CV4]

Profile