Cineversity

Hi Dr. S
I’m working in the new C4D2023/Redshift 3.5.8 and then watched Chris S video and you’re overview of the new ACES changes in Redshift a few days ago.
Going back to Lionel’s overview of the process https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohiPICLnqZo&t=728s

I didn’t see the option to “compensate for view transform”. Is that now not used in the new update?

In working through the render settings, we have the option for RAW or ACES 1.0 SDR-video…But i tried both and it didn’t seem to matter. Has that all changed now? Do we need to set the view transform to RAW if we want to setup our passes like Lionel did in his video?

Also, do we need to set “OpenColorIO File Rules” On if y’were setting the ACES workflow to the ACES preset in the project settings?

I’m struggling to get his workflow to work the same since the new updates.

thanks!
sharon

Hi Sharon,

In Cinema 4D 2023, you can find that in
Render Settings> Save> Regular Image> Bake View Transform.

OpenColorIO rules are needed for dividing Color vs. Data. No multi-pass, no need for it.

It is by default off, which means you stay (if ACES is enabled) in ACES.

The ACES 1.0 SDR-video is only for your screen and how to look at the ACES data as if one had already exited ACES.
This has the RRT (Reference Rendering Transform) in it, and the ODT (Output Device Transform) is, in this case fetching your Monitor profile. A reason why it might be not useful for other screens with another color space conversion.

The RRT is the one that places the S curve in the game, which you can think of as global-tone-mapping. Once that is applied, there is no easy way back, especially not if also the Gamut Compression (ACES 1.3) was enabled. This is (from my point of view) the reason it is by default set to off (“it” means Bake View Transform).

Yes, what Lionel said, and of course, you seemed to have seen Max’s training about ACES, including the great sessions we had with Cullen Kelly.
This leads me to share this 3rd party video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX6ir8uwq00
Speaking of 3rd parties: Besides Dr. Poynton’s FXPHD series, Dado Valentic and Cullen Kelly are perhaps my two most influential training providers for ACES seminars. The 30-minute suggested video is certainly worth the time, and free, typically their special colorist trainings content is not. (It is often taken from color management based source, but not converted. One strong reason to avoid it.)

For me, ACES is an option to connect our CG world to the rest of the professional pipeline. Leaving the baked view transformation off enables that option; Otherwise, we are out of ACES for good. Sorry to stress that point, but many YT videos miss that “detail” or are even encouraged to go out, as it “looks” good. Well, too early from my point of view.

All the best

thanks Dr. S.
I ran through the video, but it’s no divinci, and i wont be using that in this project. Maybe future ones, but i wont have the time for this one.
That being said, Should i set the view Transform to RAW?

I like using ACES but i can say, something seems to have changed in this version with ACES. 
Before, I could get the passes to = to the RBGA exact.

This time, I can’t get near it.  I tried to include screenshots, but i can’t add them here.  I"m ready to pull my hair out. Just doesnt seem to work the same way it did before.

Thanks
Sharon

Hi Sharon,

I can’t see what you get, nor what you expect to happen based on older renderings, so that is not a great way to solve a problem.

Can you load an old project and, compare the old render with the new ones, explore the settings to find the settings you want?

If you set the View Transform to Raw, all you get is the RAW data in your Picture Viewer; it will not change the data written to your file.

The main idea of ACES, in terms of data flow, is that the mainstream is pure ACES2065 or ACEScg (ACEScct/cc); the view transform doesn’t change the information; it translates it for the screen (viewer) while not altering the mainstream; hence the idea of Scene referred.

The Render-space settings (if Bake View Transform is off) determine the file’s data. OpenColor IO rules based on the names of the files, i.e., will tell what to do with it; Color (image) or, Data (raw). To be clear, raw is used as RGB values and as number storage here, like the distance in a depth pass. Since the value is essential, it shouldn’t be translated into color management.

ACES was developed as a pipeline tool. If you have no reason for that, why not stay in Linear Light Workflow?

ACES has a learning curve, and that time needs to be available. Learning while being in a time-limited project seems not the right place.

If you render out from Cinema 4D and that is all, then all you get from ACES is highlight roll out (Baked in View transform); there is no further step with ACES, e.g., in Ae of Fusion, NUKE, etc. I have shared that video not to push you into DaVinci, but he makes some excellent points about CG and how to roundtrip stuff without losses.

The OpenEXR format is often seen as linear only from some apps. If you have set your color-based (Image) files as output, you have either ACEScg or ACES2065 written in the file. This needs to be set up in your target application, where you work with the renderings. If set to sRGB or Rec709, that will not fly.

For any data-driven results, like depth, Alpha, Normal, or Motion Vector passes, raw is the way to go; here, the OpenColorIO rules need to be enabled. Otherwise, the data is based on a color profile.

Please note that there is one exception, which is the radiance format (.hdr). This has NO color management, and its Primaries are in CIE1931 XYZ space, while the E channel is linear/float, (ra_xyze). I avoid this anyway, but somehow this format has survived…
This needs to be set to RAW, as it contains linear light data (with an error of around 1%) looking like an image. If possible, keep it out of any serious production.

Note on the end of the ATT show, I show that with a photoshop file, how the histogram changes while the screen stays the same.

I hope that clears up a little bit.

My best wishes

Dr. S
Thanks for the background on it.
However, at this point, all i really need is for the straightforward workflow from C4D/Redshift to AE.
I follow Lionel’s videos that were done for Maxon Training series.
Like i said before, i had that process down!

Now, im bashing my head against a window.

I liked the ACES workflow because i could have complete control over the lights and different aspects of my project better.

I’m sorry my frustration is coming through, but i had this workflow down and now it doesnt work.

For ex: I have a material that is WHITE in the beauty pass, but when i render out the AOV’s. it’s black except for in the RGB and beauty.
I can’t figure out what freakin’ pass is missing so i’m adding in ALL the passes trying to figure out what’s happened.

For now, I might have to to jsut cryptopass/matte the beauty pass for that one part. ok so fine.
HOwever, the rest of the image looks SOOO different from the RBG pass.

For ex: If i have my diffuse lighting, and then add GI/Refl/Refr/Specular as and add and the OCIO adjust layer above them, they should look JUST LIKE THE RGB. According to the tutorials. But they don’t.

Sorry i am so frustrated. I just want to chunk it out the window.
I’m sure it’s something im doing wrong. But i can’ figure out what yet!

I’ll figure out something, but it was ure what nice having those passes so i could adjust everything as needed.
Now i’m back to the drawing board.

HAve a great weekend!
Sharon

Hi Sharon,

Can you copy a light and camera, as well as share a copy of the white material, while using just a new sphere in the scene? So I can see what you see.
Check the new scene if it renders black, then attach it. Thanks

This should be a small file. I will look into it this evening.

BTW, have you by any chance updated Ae lately?

Cheers

Hey Dr. S
I just changed the material and i’m rendering that out.
Let me see if that fixes the problem.

Don’t look for a file tonight. Take the night off :D
If i am still having an issue, I’ll make a small project tomorrow if it’s still happening.
Either way, I’ll stop in and give you my progress.

I apologize for my meltdown. Rendering is always a crapshoot.
Thanks for the handholding. You’re a saint and a hero!

Oh my AE is 22.6.0.

Thanks and enjoy your weekend!
sharon

UPDATE!
It was the Material!!!
For some reason, it would render in the beauty, but NOT in the AOV!!!

OK i am moving forward.
Thank you for giving me so much help!
Thank you tons Dr. S!!!

Sharon

Hi Sharon,

I can sent you an upload link, just let me know.

Please understand that I know how it feels to have something working—and then—NOT. No sorry needed, I understand!

Happy to help.

Cheers

Crossing posts! Thanks for the extra information!

Sounds you got it. Great.

Enjoy your weekend

ENJOY!

Spalkowetz - 16 September 2022 09:26 PM

UPDATE!
It was the Material!!!
For some reason, it would render in the beauty, but NOT in the AOV!!!

OK i am moving forward.
Thank you for giving me so much help!
Thank you tons Dr. S!!!

Sharon