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Quick question about After Effects opening an aec file from C4D
Posted: 18 April 2022 11:17 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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Joined  2016-06-23

Hi guys,

I’m trying out the workflow between C4D and AE. I know that Cineware is there to make things smoother in some instances. I’ve also seen suggestions that using the standard pre-Cineware workflow can also be helpful. I’m trying out the latter and experiencing a problem.

I’m at the very beginning of the process - trying out renders and importing them into AE - and have some issues. Cinema 4D lets me render out an aec. file alongside the OpenEXR file of my project. I should then be able to import the aec. file into After Effects. When I try to select this file in After Effects, it’s greyed out and unselectable. I’ve put the C4DImporter plug-in into the Plug-ins folder in AE, and it doesn’t seem to be having much effect.

So a couple of questions. Does the C4DImporter plugin go in the Plug-ins folder in AE, or does it need to go into the ‘Extensions’ sub-folder there, or can it go in either?

Is there a recommended video here on Cineversity where I can watch the procedure used to render out separate passes as individual EXR files? For example, if I wanted to render out an image with Global Illumination, and have the GI be its own EXR file, how would I do this? (I believe there are several videos online showing the procedure. but I am still getting my head around it).

Side note - I am using the current Beta version of After Effects on an M1 iMac. There could be a chance that the problem opening an aec file is an issue with this Beta version. it’s a puzzle though as I thought the plug-in would at least let AE recognise the file. If none of the above issues ring a bell or if it’s suspected that the Beta is causing trouble, I’d welcome a link to watch methods of rendering out separate passes. I’m on R25 right now, current version.

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Posted: 19 April 2022 01:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Hi ajthorne,

You found the C4Dimporter.plugin, and you can place it in the Plugin folder of Ae. I have done so for nearly two decades, and it never failed me. I have not tried with the daily beta of Ae, but with the current version on an M1Max. Works just fine. I checked the usual channels, and I couldn’t see any trouble for M1.

The Multi-pass settings in the Render Settings define the images that you get. My advice, keep it in 32bit/float and select NOT the Multilayer option. Multilayers work fine in NUKE, but not in Ae; even I know some artists would disagree with me here. You might explore what works best for you.

A tutorial about:
https://www.cineversity.com/vidplaytut/getting_started_with_cinema_4d_part_20_introduction_to_multipass_rendering

In the Render Settings, you will find in the lower-left area a button: Multi-Pass. This will allow you to select the passes you need.
https://help.maxon.net/c4d/en-us/#html/DRENDERSETTINGS-RDATA_GROUP_MULTIPASS.html?TocPath=Render Menu|Render Setting|Multi-Pass|_____0

All the best

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Posted: 19 April 2022 01:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
Total Posts:  11
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Thank you. Since I’m a subscriber to AE I might install the current non-beta version alongside the beta and see if that works any better. I will follow your advice about 32bit - I know 16bit has smaller file sizes but with hard drives big enough these days (and the small number of frames I’m rendering) I don’t see the larger size as being a big deal for me.

Thank you for the link and the tutorial, I will look at both. I appreciate the prompt response. I’m quite excited about S26 this week too. Take care.

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Posted: 19 April 2022 02:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Thanks for the reply, ajthorne.

Typically for image-based data, 16bit/float per channel should be fine. This “half-float” covers 18 stops precisely and 12 stops with some limitations on top. In two decades of shooting HDRIs, I never reached 30 stops (excluding the sun disc, of course.)

The idea to suggest 32bit/float since Stu pushed the Linear workflow around 15 years ago is based on the idea that we also have data channels and where precision is key. These need to be set as data channels (Interpret Footage, Color Management> Preserve RGB ON. Otherwise, you get color profile data, which doesn’t work very well with Position passes, Motion passes, etc.

Some artists see that as more relaxed and decide visually what works, but if one has no Reference-HDR screen, then this might not give accurate data, to begin with.

The key is that Cinema 4D produces internally 32bit bit float per channel, to begin with. Anyone who has kept the data can now just deliver from the EXR master the HDR version of the client work instead of redoing the whole project; this might ring in some ears already, as I have been trying to get this across for a decade.

With ACES available in most pipelines, this is hopefully soon a standard anyway.
https://prolost.com/blog/aces

Enjoy your exploration

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
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Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
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Posted: 19 April 2022 02:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
Total Posts:  11
Joined  2016-06-23

I’ll play around with all this, thanks again for the info.

I’m assuming a solution will turn up eventually but the aec files are still proving problematic. I installed the regular (current) version of Ae 2022 and it can neither open nor import the aec file that C4D generated for me - screenshot below. I installed Ae (regular non beta version), did a new render, ticked the option to generate a composting file for Ae, then attempted to import / open the aec file. Ae doesn’t want to import it and generates the error message shown if I attempt to open it.

Since everyone else has been able to get it to work I’m assuming I’ve done something silly somewhere or have misinterpreted an obvious step. I’ll watch the video linked and see if I’m making an error somewhere in the process.

https://i.ibb.co/0hBXsw9/Screen-Shot-2022-04-19-at-1-04-43-pm-AE-problem.png

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Posted: 19 April 2022 02:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Thanks, ajthorne,

But images have very little value in finding a problem. The project files are key.

However, what I can see in the Render Settings, that there is not a single Multipass assigned, not has the Save Multi-pass even a path to save anything. It should open at least the single Untitled2.exr via the aec file.

Please try this file. Double click in the Ae Project window and select then the aec file. It is just a simple cube and a few passes.
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/PiQ9Wp80QjJdJ5EKAWdgEx8qDaNpLA08X9tpiJk2j9j

If that doesn’t work, you need to check with the support
https://www.maxon.net/en/support-center

All the best

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
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Posted: 19 April 2022 04:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
Total Posts:  11
Joined  2016-06-23

Thank you.

I identified the problem. it has to do with both Rosetta and the version of Ae that I was using.

Opening the project in Rosetta - emulation - fixes the issue in both the Beta version and the current 2022 version of Ae. I can open and import the aec file you sent me. Clicking on the aec file brings in the whole folder of exr files and the accompanying aec file into After Effects.

If I open either of those versions of After Effects normally without Rosetta, I get a Warning message advising me that BodyPaint 3D is not yet compatible with the software.

“The following plugins are installed, but not yet compatible with this version of After Effects. They will show as missing in existing projects and cannot be applied.

To run After Effects in a compatible mode, chose “Get info” in the application context menu and enable “Open using Rosetta”.

And the dialog box just lists ‘BodyPaint 3D’ as the plug-in causing the problem. If I use Rosetta this message doesn’t appear and I can open the aec as normal and use it in the way you described.

This is an issue at Adobe’s end, as I eventually found this message on the Adobe page

https://helpx.adobe.com/lv/after-effects/using/c4d.html

“The current version of After Effects (22.0) only supports Cinema 4D vR24 (installer included). However, the latest Cinema 4D vR25 is compatible with After Effects versions earlier than 22.0. If your workflow requires features only available in Cinema 4D R25, please use After Effects 2021 (version 18.4 or above). Support for R25-only features in After Effects 2022 will be available in a future update.”

I was using R25 and After effects 22.0, apparently not a happy combination. Installing Ae 2021 allows me to open the aec file at first try.

Since S26 is out this week I hope that Ae eventually reaches some sort of parity with the current version of C4D to let me use current versions of both. But I’ll stick with R25 and the slightly older version of Ae, and wait till Ae eventually catches up so I can use the full Apple Silicon version with it.  Thank you again for your help, I will now follow up with watching the link you provided.

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Posted: 19 April 2022 01:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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Hi ajthorne,

I hope you have an option to place all that information where it is needed and that Adobe will soon have a native M1 version, not only for Ae but also for other products.

My best wishes.

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
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Posted: 19 April 2022 07:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Hi Dr Sassi,

This has now been reported to Adobe, as I’d posted a similar thread with them. They mention they will be reaching out to Maxon about it, see below.

https://community.adobe.com/t5/after-effects-beta-discussions/can-the-current-beta-version-open-aec-files-from-cinema-4d/td-p/12888125

“Thanks very much for reporting this issue. Yes, the C4DImporter.plugin which comes with C4D is what allows the import of .aec files into After Effects. It appears that this plug-in has not yet been updated for Apple silicon, so it will only work when After Effects is run under Rosetta emulation. The plug-in will need to be updated by Maxon in order for it to be used in After Effects when running natively on Apple silicon. We will reach out to the team at Maxon to let them know as well.


Thank you again for reporting this issue and for using After Effects (Beta),

- John, After Effects Engineering Team”

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Posted: 19 April 2022 09:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Thanks again, ajthorne.

Fingers crossed this will be fixed soon.

All the best

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
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Posted: 10 May 2022 05:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
Total Posts:  138
Joined  2012-04-04

I’ve just encountered this issue as I’m starting to do production work on my new Mac Studio. Bummer. Maxon’s managed to port almost all of the Red Giant and other plugins they now own, but not this one?  I’d assume porting this one wouldn’t be nearly as heavy a lift as those others.

I’ve submitted a support ticket to Maxon asking what the plan is.

Shawn Marshall
Marshall Arts Motion Graphics

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Posted: 10 May 2022 07:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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Hi Shawn Marshall,

I can’t add anything to this. All I can do is write requests. Cineversity is has no options to change the software.

Please create a suggestion ticket while heading over to support.

I hope you had the “replaced previous version” set off when you installed the newer Adobe version. Rolling back otherwise is the apparent option. Yes, I know, not fun.

All the best

P.S.: I updated and rolled back. with 22.4 I can confirm the problem. Rolling back, all works, but yes, why running an M1 then?

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
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Posted: 12 May 2022 06:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
Total Posts:  138
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Hi:

I wasn’t expecting any action to be taken on this forum, I just wanted to chime in that I was having this issue, too. I submitted this in a support ticket:

Now that I have a new Mac Studio with an M1 Ultra processor I’d really rather not have to run After Effects in Rosetta emulation to allow the C4D Importer plugin to work. Any guess as to when that plugin will be released to run natively on Apple Silicon?

This was the reply:

Are you referring to the C4Dimporter plugin that’s included with Cinema 4D in the Exchange Plugins folder?  If so, this plugin is no longer in development since the built in Cineware plugin for AfterEffects effectively does the same thing with fewer steps.  This is only still included to support legacy workflows, but unfortunately that also means you must run AE in a legacy mode (IE, Rosetta) in order to use them.

I replied that Cineware would not be an efficient replacement for the AEC workflow, and got this reply:

OK, so I guess I misinterpreted the policy with the AEC “old workflow”.  Cineware is still the development priority, but AEC workflows are still going to be supported as well, so the next update to C4D should contain an update to the c4dimporter plugin which makes it compatible with M1 devices.
Note that Cineware will work for most workflows because you can extract lights, cameras, and 3D objects from your C4D file with it to get basically the same info as you would from an AEC file, though there are still a few fringe cases where the AEC workflow is preferable.

My reply:

Playing around with Cineware for a bit I do see how one can extract the camera, lights, and objects tagged for External Compositing from a C4D scene brought into the AE project. This workaround should work for me on my Mac Studio until the C4D Importer plugin is updated to allow me to natively use AEC files again.

One advantage of the AEC workflow is if you render out a bunch of separate sequences for Multi-pass elements the AEC file will import all of those into AE (if they’re named correctly).

So Cineware will work natively in AE on my Mac Studio as a workaround until the C4DImporter plugin is made M1-native.

Cheers.

Shawn Marshall

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Posted: 12 May 2022 07:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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Hi Shawn,

First of all, sorry about your experience with the replies.

The aec workflow and the Cineware options are not identical, I agree.
The idea of the aec is that you have decided to render a multi-pass out before you go to Ae, in some cases on a different machine even (teamwork Cinema 4D Artist and Ae artist working together), etc.

To leave the rendering in Ae based on Cineware is not even remotely the same; they are two completely different concepts.

Thanks for bringing this point up. I will stress this point.

All the best

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
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Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
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Posted: 12 May 2022 07:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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Hi Dr. S.

No need to apologize. I just wanted to get this up so people who want to use AEC on their new Macs knew about the workaround and that (it sounds like) C4DImporter.aex will be updated.

I don’t think I’ve EVER rendered a C4D project in AE, so I’ve almost never touched Cineware. It’s been all AEC for me from the start.

Cheers.

Shawn

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Posted: 12 May 2022 08:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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Thanks again, Shawn.

I had initially reported this as a suggestion. I have just filed it as a report.

The aec is something that I see as a standard workflow. This needs to be adapted.

Thanks for your patience.

For anyone reading along while having the same problem: Please create a suggestion ticket with the Support.
https://www.maxon.net/en/support-center

All the best

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

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