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Sketch & Toon lines thickness problem with moving character!
Posted: 10 December 2019 01:23 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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Hello,

I have a rigged character (biped) in Cinema 4D R20 rendered in sketch&toon;. I have “Resolution Independent” set in render settings and also “World Space” pixel units on the materials render.

So far so good. It works perfect when I move the camera close or far away from the character as the line thickness is locked consistent and proportionally to the visual size of the character.

BUT, when I animate the character, walking towards the camera, there is a problem with the line thickness. All meshes that are bind to the rig will not scale the line thickness correctly. They just stay as thin as when the character was before moving towards the camera.

Objects that are not bind directly to the rig/skeleton but using a PSR constrain tag, like his hat on his head, does scale correctly just the same way as when moving the camera.

So I presume there is an issue with the bind meshes as if the position “World Space” for the lines pixel units is still somehow locked to the initial position before the walk animation, kind of what you would expect from a “Local Space” setting.

Please see the attachment “carl-rig-1” and “carl-rig-2” with just camera movement and everything is correct (as I want it) and then the “carl-rig-3” with incorrect line thickness on bind meshes when character is moving, but correct on the hat that is only using a constrain tag (not binded)

Is there a secret setting to keep the sketch line thickness consistent with it’s “World Space” pixel unit when applied to an animated character? Because it works as expected on everything else…


Thank you for any help! Much appreciated!

Tore B.v.O

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Posted: 10 December 2019 04:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Hi Tore B.v.O,

I have sent you an upload link, so I can explore your settings. (I’ll keep the file private)
Check your Private Messages here on Cineversity.

I will have a look at it.

Cheers

Edited, moved parts to the next post

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
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Posted: 11 December 2019 06:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Hi Tore B.v.O,

Please have a look at the project files:
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/NIYMdps9bUW1kFMSo9DY3TagKYJIEmZfSqCqXCIlXAh

(File “…_01.c4d”) The settings Material> Render> Pixel Units: Absolute.  I move the camera toward the object (Frame 0-36), and then the object towards the camera (Frame 38-72). Frame 0 and 38, as well as , Frame 36 and 72 should look like the same.
I can’t see a difference.

If you have a look at file …_11.c4d” then you will see that the stroke size differs if the camera moves or the objects. (Pixel Units: World Space.) I have set up the hat-object as a joint object as well. So you get the same stroke thickness, but the camera or object move will result in different stroke thickness (while it stays the same for both, rigged object and hat, in each case). It takes the axis into account, which remains still for both now in file 11. Only the points are moved. Wich causes the differnce, but the objects show the same stroke thickness.

In your case (I do not have seen your file yet): The settings Material> Render> Pixel Units: World Space will take the coordinate system of the rigged object, its axis. Since the Joints move the points and not the object axis, the axis stays the same, but the hat’s axis is moving, hence the differences.

So, how to solve this? The answer is in file “…_21.c4d”. The Skin object is set to Object> Coord… > Object. This means that you move the object with the object’s own axis, but the animation is now needed to stationary. Like running on a treadmill. The movements are based on the joints, but the overall motion is based on the axis.
More in detail, here:
https://help.maxon.net/us/index.html#OCASKIN-ID_OBJECTPROPERTIES
The hat-object is moved with its axis as well, constrained to the rigged objects own axis. Now all is in sync, both objects have the same stroke thickness, as well as for both cases (camera moves, object moves).

Here is a quick screen-capture (#827) with the three examples:
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/F0g3fhm9FhdvkmiZaVuYGOMZw7SGJAWhfgZuEuAHSZ2

I can have a look into your file, if the above isn’t answering your question.

My best wishes for your project.

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
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Posted: 11 December 2019 11:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Hi there Dr. Sassi,

Thank you so much for fantastic support! This solves it completely smile I have not implemented it yet, but we will use motion capture data for the animations, and I guess we can connect the base movement to a constraint on the character itself for automation. I think that would work…

Thank’s again!

Cheers,
Tore B.v. Obstfelder

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Posted: 11 December 2019 06:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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You’re very welcome, Tore B.v. Obstfelder, thanks for the reply.

Thanks as well for the file!

Going by the “timestamp” of this post and your PM, I can see that the eleven instances of the Skin Object create an effort. I assume that you are aware of the Filter options or the Selection Object to manage adjustments, even with multiple objects quickly.

The settings with Pixel Units> Absolute Pixels seem to work here. Which makes me curious, what is the advantage or target here to use World Space?

I will keep the file for a few days before I delete them, so I can answer quickly. I will also leave the DropBox upload open for now, if you have anything else, just send it to the DropBox. Thanks.

All the best

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
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Posted: 12 December 2019 08:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Hi Tore B.v. Obstfelder,

Please have a look at the file below:
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/wGJWQXffPRcoldJuDRanvarAsmZBeWrVsAFGs9HpnD6

I think this is the mix you need. The Render>Pixel Units> Absolute Pixels (I know, you wanted World Space, bear with me here for a moment, thanks).

The Thickness is set to Distance, while the camera is set to Details> DOF Map… in conjunction with the Object Focus Distance. The resulting range is larger than you need to avoid substantial jumps.

Now the distance can change either by camera or by the object (while the objects are either joint-driven or constrained based).

The Skin Object is set to Joints, as also requested, based on your eleven Skin Objects (and perhaps later on more)

I hope that works for you.

Cheers

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
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Posted: 12 December 2019 04:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Hello, and thank you again for excellent advice! I was actually trying the same thing :D And with a successful result. See details below. I just used default settings on everything and just changing render settings to >> Resolution Independent, line settings to >> Thickness >> Distance >> Range Camera >> Mode Spline. And then in the Camera just adjusting the focus point to the middle of the scene.

See this video for the testing result:
https://vimeo.com/379064696

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Posted: 12 December 2019 05:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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You’re very welcome, Tore B. v. Obstfelder, thanks for the reply!

When you click in the file from above Distance> Camera> Spline, you will see that I have a setup something similar as well. But I tried to keep it simple for now in this discussion and put it back to linear. I’m glad you explored it and found your curve to make it work.

Is the figure in the demo-clip also based on body and joints, as well as a separate head ( instead of the hat) with constrains?

My best wishes for your project.

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
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