Cineversity

Something has been bugging me regarding 3d animation and the tutorials I have seen and learned from. That one thing is that I do not see anyone teaching how to deal with units of scale. I can understand that overall a logo animation can be 1 meter or 1 inch and no one is the wiser, but let’s say you are working on film effects or an car animation to be used in a commercial. I notice alot of models available and that I purchase that when I import them into C4d, the scale is totally off by factors of 100 or more. I am not sure if I am doing something wrong or that you have to deal with it in the scale tools. If you have any insight about this, I would appreciate it. Or, if you know of other tutorials that deal with this, please let me know.

Hi Vrauckis,

In the ‘old days” units were just units. We tried to stay in 3 digits before and after the period, to keep it precise. In C4D history, meter or mile as “suffix” was more or less an orientation, nothing more. Since we get more and more feature that are based on real world measurements, it is recommended that you stay in real world units if you like to use them. (There might be cases to not to do so… creating planet earth to name one ;o)

Example, a common misconception these days is that the Physical camera would not work properly, ignoring the fact that the sensor size and the “lens” as well the distance (to the objects) create a combination that needs precision. Some people set the distance to something that a real lens would consider as Infinite (where the depth of field is the greatest as well) and expect to have a shallow depth of field, like “they” would have 6 feet away from the lens. (BTW, F-Stop means the relation to the lens, e.g., 135mm, if you have a F2.0 then the aperture has a diameter of 135/2mm. Even there the F stop is related to real world measurements. Note that the Glass of the lens is not part of the F-Stop, this is only expressed in T-Stop measurements. The Lens is a try to meet the reality, and comes more or less close to it, but it is a simulation only!)

You might need to know which size/scale your model is. There is no tutorial that is able to describe all the happy scale “weirdness” of the models available to you. (In all fairness, the older models try to get the “123period123” rule!)

However, most of the time, you have an option to set that scale during import right, which is a two step operation most of the time. First import to see what you got, delete and then do it again to get it right.

If you need to scale (after import) a single object but want to have the scale set back to 1.0 (even in the freeze), you can group it with an empty polygon (top position) and “connect and delete” this “couple”. The scale is always used from the top object, without altering the objects below it. Try it before you use it in production.

All the best

Sassi

Dr. Sassi, your example of a planet is a good one regarding scale.  Let’s say that your scene is one with the International space station and the planet earth in the background. How would you scale these? Would the space station be scaled to real world measurements but the earth is scaled down? How would that effect the camera, especially with movement? Would it be better to just scale everything equally or does the difference in size between an object and planet create problems?

Ultimately, how does a film project workflow work with scale differences like this?

Hi Vrauckis,

So far I can tell (working on film, as well with and for film artists since 1989)—it always depends. There is no fixed rule. Each project has its own challenges and advantages.

Please keep in mind that the precision that C4D uses theses days is much higher than in the old days (Well, you might remember in v4 (or v5?) that there was a double precision version on the CD already… ;o)

In film, compositing is the key. You nearly never have a complete scene and render all at once. If you have to have planet earth in the background, it might be just footage (practical or rendered, or based on matte-painting.) However, the greater the distance to an object is, the less a small detail or parallax concerns count. In this way camera projection is mostly in use, and/or just digital matte painting. A key thing to understand in film is that we produce an illusion from a very specific perspective. In film you build and produce only what you need: Nothing more. It is on the end something that should produce money, and not burn it down, just because it is cool to have a complete model for all cases.

Film means to me to figure out if a practical shooting on set (or location) is preferable over a miniature or maybe a 3d model. Maybe a mix, maybe not. It all is a question what you need. All of that is a longer story, and there is certainly no “rule” or “one size fits all” procedure.  Money and time is certainly a stronger factor in the decision than anything else, except you work in independent film, then no money and all the time in the world is your budget (Book: Stu Maschwitz, DV Rebel) The mix with practical miniatures will introduce the scale discussion automatically. Math is then a needed component in the mix.

What I found to be tru is that the target of it is the “key” and the way to get it done is the challenge to solve. What ever pleases the eye is key. How to get it, is the challenge.

Scale, the earth can be projected, or done separately. I don’t think at any time it is a wise idea to have human scaled (space located) object as main foreground and have an incredible huge sphere-boject in the background, because “one” likes to work in one scene. In film, as your question is, it is most unlikely that the artists working on the space-station are the same who will work on any back ground material.

Check out Cinefex (a must have subscription for VFX artists) and of course watch any “making of” you can get your fingers on. (I collect movies for that purpose, it is a four digit number already)—will say, the learning never stops.

Film means to me, to know the capture and compositing part as we’ll, if one likes to be a successful 3D artists. Not knowing the steps before and after (3D) puts the artist in a claustrophobic position.

Knowledge and experience delivers the base to explore the next project and as an result, to find (hopefully) the most efficient way to get the current shot done.

All the best

Sassi