Cineversity

Hello,

I’m still very new to C4D and am doing my best to learn the software so that I can become “fluent” in it.  But one of the challenges I’m facing with my learning process is figuring out what to watch on Cineversity.  There’s simply too much stuff and I’m feeling overwhelmed.  The search engine, for me, isn’t all that great.  Often times I get results that only help to confuse me more than anything.

Okay, this isn’t exactly a tutorial suggestion and it’s not an “issue” with the site either, but I’ll post it here anyways.

I’d like to suggest something like Digital Tutors has with their “learning paths” which are catered lists that guide students through the learning process.  Yes, each student has his or her particular needs, but there’s something to be said with having logical and well thought out lists, made by people who are fluent in C4D, to help guide users through the learning process.

To that end, I’ve gone through the site and come up with an action plan for myself to learn MoGraph.  Much like the list that Sassi prepared for me with Thinking Particles, I wanted to make something that would free me from the burden of having to chose what to watch next.  Honestly, I don’t even know if this list is well balanced or not, but I figured I might share it with everyone here.

Who knows, maybe it’ll inspire someone to create different lists for all the various topics one can study.

Jerome

PS
I had to attach the list as it’s too long for the 6000 character limit.

Hi Jerome,

The idea is normally to create “Play-Lists” here. Everyone can create as much Playlist as one like to. Those can be shared.
http://www.cineversity.com/vidplaytut/getting_started_with_cineversity_part_4
I haven’t seen a lot of those from Cineversity Members. This is the tool that Cineversity provides to do this.

Another guide is certainly the “Help-Content”. I know, no-one really reads anymore those things “cover to cover”, but you get one possible and logical path through it. With that you can search. The search is certainly a mighty tool, as you can utilize up to seven filter and have as well as the “search” on top of that. (Click on “show all” in the top-middle area first!

I have said it more than often, so - sorry if I repeat myself here: Everyone likes to have a very specific mix, speed and level, and all of that preferable tailored to his or her specific area of work. I think that is impossible to provide, except we establish a “Master/Apprentices” situation, where we have a one on one relationship. Wait, MAXON offers that… ;o)

On the other hand, people who go systematically through the material are rare, from my point of view. I say that based on the questions I get since over ten years about C4D in online fora. My impression is, most people have to run before they can walk, and the day by day “deadlines” of the job doesn’t really allow for going through (let’s say) thousand tutorials.

I took the time, to give you a run-down of themes for MoGraph, that I thought might fit to your style of learning, relatively tailored to your way of learning. I even explained each step. Sorry, if that was not to your liking.

My personal opinion is certainly that everyone is special, in the most positive way. Everyone needs, based on that, an individual path. Whenever someone has initially asked in the past what to do, I have spend typically an hour to response to the questions in detail. With a clear path and suggestions, I have the feeling it is perhaps overwhelming; the work in 3D is nothing for people who likes to get all done in a few weeks and can then let go of the learning. It is certainly a craft that needs time, to be mastered. There I see the main obstacle. I try here mostly to give answers and show alternatives, so people do not got stuck. Every part that is only half understood, will slow the later learning down. A reason why I don’t like a lot of tutorials, which push the artist to fast to a level where they have no ‘bearings”. It is hard to move back to the basics after such a rush. Well, I can’t prevent that elsewhere, from people with limited educational background (in terms of guiding the starter), but I can do my best here.

All the best

Sassi

Dr. Sassi - 03 September 2014 12:43 PM

Hi Jerome,

The idea is normally to create “Play-Lists” here. Everyone can create as much Playlist as one like to. Those can be shared.
http://www.cineversity.com/vidplaytut/getting_started_with_cineversity_part_4
I haven’t seen a lot of those from Cineversity Members. This is the tool that Cineversity provides to do this.

Yeah, I should open up a ticket and get that feature to work.  On my account, I only get “Add to my Active Playlists” with a SAVE button.  Clicking on it does nothing.

Another guide is certainly the “Help-Content”. I know, no-one really reads anymore those things “cover to cover”, but you get one possible and logical path through it. With that you can search. The search is certainly a mighty tool, as you can utilize up to seven filter and have as well as the “search” on top of that. (Click on “show all” in the top-middle area first!

Yes, I use it every day.  It’s a great tool, but again, isn’t a guided curriculum of Cineversity videos. ;^)

[quote}I have said it more than often, so - sorry if I repeat myself here: Everyone likes to have a very specific mix, speed and level, and all of that preferable tailored to his or her specific area of work. I think that is impossible to provide, except we establish a “Master/Apprentices” situation, where we have a one on one relationship. Wait, MAXON offers that… ;o)

The time you’ve spent helping me I value greatly and again, thank you for being here.  Taking a step back, I think what I’m suggesting is for Cineversity to continue work on the LEARNING section.  Would be great to have sections for xPresso, Particles, Thinking Particles, MoGraph, Dynamics, Rendering; with playlists that alternate between theory (learning our Tooltime Tips), to practice (using the tool in hands on tutorials), to lectures (how others use the tools, NAB & Siggraph presentations).

On the other hand, people who go systematically through the material are rare, from my point of view. I say that based on the questions I get since over ten years about C4D in online fora. My impression is, most people have to run before they can walk, and the day by day “deadlines” of the job doesn’t really allow for going though (let’s say) thousand tutorials.

Fair enough, but it doesn’t negate the value of guided paths.  I’m sure there are many who could benefit, and even some who would use them.

I took the time, to give you a run-down of themes for MoGraph, that I thought might fit to your style of learning, relatively tailored to your way of learning. I even explained each step. Sorry, if that was not to your liking.

Your run down is the template I used to create my personal “guided path.”  In fact, I followed it to the letter, point by point, only adding a few things here and there as I stumbled through all the options available here on Cineversity.

Anyways, at the end of the day, it’s just a suggestion.  If it’s not something others see value in, then so be it.  I’ll just try to get the Playlist feature working on my account and share my playlists with the community.

All the best,

Jerome

Thanks for the reply and feedback, Jerome.

Playlists are one tool that should work nicely. A list is content wise all one needs, but I fear it is not comfortable enough to get viral. People like you might even print it out and crosses things out that has been understood. Which is a great progress/reward system.

Speaking of learning path. I certainly do not only invest time in tech/gear and art studies. This Summer was mostly used (as it is always more silent then here) to explore a “new” model of learning and I discussed there a lot of what was given. I even moved one time through the whole process to have done all steps a “Master” need to do. Long story short, it reminded me a lot of so many other groups I have temporarily joined, started with the PixelCorps in 2004 (to 2007) where I lead the 3D part of the learning. The one this summer was different but similar (photography based).

The core problem that needs to be addressed first is an process that I would call Expectation management with an intense discussion to find out the “locks and blocks”, as well limitations in educational basics of each and everyone. If that is not done carefully (or at all), no suggested path will work, not even a path split in many levels, etc.

As a side note, there is too much stuff available that is not well researched and places wrong information and procedurals into peoples mind, which needs to be analysis and healed, otherwise the “stuff” is moved along the path and the content presented on that path is made responsible for this. (I know you do photography, so take this example for now. A lot of information given today to digital photography is taken from the film/celluloid time, without updating it.)

There are so many variables in the game, but I have not given up to find something that is efficient and quick. Twenty years of special education, and a decade of teaching and learning from online sources should give me a good base, we will see.

My best wishes

Sassi

Dr. Sassi - 03 September 2014 03:51 PM

(I know you do photography, so take this example for now. A lot of information given today to digital photography is taken from the film/celluloid time, without updating it.)

You mean the zone system is no longer relevant?!  Blasphemy!!!  ;^)

Seriously though, I’m really grateful for the help you’ve provided.  I think what it boils down for me is targeting the right videos to the subject I want to learn.

One example I’m having right now is finding the right video to learn about the MoGraph Cloner Object.  If I type MoGraph Cloner in the search bar, I get a huge list of videos and have no clue which one to watch.  The next step is to read the descriptions for the videos, but they provide little insight into which is the best video to watch as I often find myself watching videos that are off the mark, which is frustrating.  The last thing I want to do is ask, “Sassi, what do I watch next?  Sassi, what do I watch after that?”

It’s a tedious process for both of us.  A catered playlist would fix that.

Anyways, I don’t want to insist.  As you’ve stated, everyone has their own needs.

All the best,

Jerome

Thehehe, [zone] using a 16.5+ camera currently, the zone system is not really my target anymore, I think A.A. would agree. But the zone system was more about “pre-visualization”, to imagine and analysis what you see and want to have later on in the negative. We don’t have dark-chambers in digital, I miss it, and I don’t. ;o)

I see your input as positive as positive as possible, and I do not see critic in it, you suggest and voice your idea, which I like.

=====

Yes, too little or too much is always the problem. I understand that. The idea what I think is in my videos and what others tell me is inside is always based on the background and perspective one has. To keep it short in the description, you have to live with some limitations.

How do I do it with the stuff I learn from others? I watch at least three sources, to avoid to take over their mistakes primarily, and then to get all details from different perspectives. When I take a look to the 5.000 tutorials I have watched in the past years, from all over the place, I wish I would have seen only half of them. But the other half, which I really didn’t like, have had many other people who loved the stuff. So, am I wrong? Perhaps, but it indicates to me only that it is all very much based on personal/individual “things”...
So, In a nutshell, I know I’m in some areas a starter and in some a pro, perhaps nothing that sounds too special. As a starter I get impatience to get my basics answers that I have learning the application, as a pro I have already developed a patience that I get only 5% out of the material at all, perhaps less. As long as it is correct data, I’m fine, most of the time I find badly researched stuff—which is unbearable.
Again, I watch several, to get to the point. Or take books, I find more and more mistakes in books. Do they get worse, no, I know it better after reading, e.g., dozen and dozens of books about cinematography, to name one area. I do not stop here, and I wish I had a reading list… But I know there is nothing that I would trust, I have to read everything on my own, to be sure.

My ideal would be five or six different versions of each tutorial. And even then we would not match it for everyone. The work to find out which one is a good fit, creates a huge communication stream, which most people avoid.

What can you take out from it? Perhaps let tutorials run in the background, as a friend of mine told me (he is now at Lynda), and check in only “visually” when you hear something that seems new to you.
to do your playlists, gives you a) the chance to check what you have seen, and if the combination is “sound”, and b) it might motivate others to give you an input what else you could use.
Playlist makes the most sense if they have 3-5 tutorial mixed with a clear starting level and a clear target/problem description.

On the other hand, play with the stuff, you can’t break it, ask if you hit the wall, and enjoy.

All the best

Sassi