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Inflate/Deflate Rubber Bag
Posted: 15 July 2019 09:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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Wow, this is invaluable information sir. Will definitely help get to where I need to be! I wish that I had your knowledge when it came to problem-solving. Thank you so much!!

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Posted: 15 July 2019 11:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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You’re too kind, Matt, thank you for your feedback.

One of my ‘secrets’ is undoubted that I love to explore, the phrase “What happens if…” is a thousand times stronger, creatively, than the thought “I know that!”

I always assume that I miss something in an artist project, as usual, which certainly keeps me on my toes. So if you have any more pieces of information about the specific process in question, please let me know, I’m happy to share ideas.

ENJOY.

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Posted: 16 July 2019 09:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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Dr. Sassi, I was able to get the expansion/contracting to work with the pose morph deformer and I think it looks great.

They want a version of the animation to show the bladder being punctured by the sharp corner at the base of the unit. I’ve been trying to figure it out almost all day, but have been unsuccessful :(

https://www.dropbox.com/s/29f03inmbvs3fqo/pose morph tearing.c4d?dl=0

The version on the left shows the pose morph deformer at its contracted state. The version on the right is a version using cloth that is torn using a spherical field and a vertex map.
The problem is, how can I get from the version on the left to the version on the right seamlessly? Since you cannot remove geometry using a pose morph deformer, this is where I get hung up.

Thanks,
Matt

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Posted: 16 July 2019 11:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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Hi Matt,

To puncture something can be done in several ways. Please have a look at the file below:
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/lJy64a8pen051iG3qI6UkCqZV7wkLYli8Ujdy34M4Tk

If you pull all sliders to 0% and delete the polygons, not any single point(!), then you have the hole you are after. If you remove a point, you can start over from scratch. In R20 the points are deleted with the polygon, check your Preferences>Modeling/Sculpting and press (or not) the shift key. Seriously!

The other method is to select the polygons in question, use the selection Tag of the given polygons in a Texture Tag>Selection field. You find that option as well in the file above. The UV needs to work for that since I used here just two polygons that is a quick set up.

From left to right: When I take the models, which look the same in hight and use the right one inside the left Pose Morph, it scales poorly. Well, not really, but it seems that way. The Squash and Stretch is the reason, kind of. You need to tell me what you like to have. One is 87.406 cm for P.Y., and the other one (left) is 148.386 cm. If I take the right one, scale it accordingly, it works nicely in the PoseMorph. I’m not clear what you did there, or what target you have. More details, please. Thanks.

All the best

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Posted: 16 July 2019 01:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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P.S.:

On the base of your two models, I found that each animation (left and right) should be Baked as Alembic. With an object that is very close to the transition shape as morph base, these two Alembic files can be dragged into a Pose Morph (set to Points). The question in the alert should be answered with Yes, an absolute pose should be created. Now you might offset the part which is used after the other, time-wise.

The PoseMorph, while in Edit Mode, should be set as Relative for a blend between the two. If mixing is set to Absolute, the lowest pose will overwrite anything that is above it. This will not allow for blend of two or more.

The other file is based on the little dent that I saw in the right model. Puncture a hole in rubber will have a movement on the surface and if cut, the friction of the piercing tool will move it as well. I used here nine polygons, which I scaled as pose down to a previous one polygon, while the center polygon is scaled back and pulled down. I hope the files illuminate my lines.

Scene file
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/wnwG9bnopR7ALkidc4C5rGYNeI9JXE7xkDRfD1bkjxB

Cheers

… one more thing: both files in one
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/S2dzQapDMeaRDp9pmtS3hyb9OLoxHMJTc2mRJFW7utD

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Posted: 16 July 2019 09:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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Dr. Sassi,

I sincerely appreciate your assistance with this. I bet it took a bit of time to figure out the best approach here. This stuff is way over my head and very confusing to me. I just really struggle with “organic” animation. Even with your files, I’m not sure I could re-create what you did. I think I may pass this project on to another designer. There are just too many variables with the bag expanding/contracting, then being pierced. On top of that, they want to show the air pressure inside the mold. It sounded much easier, but when getting into it…much more difficult than anticipated.

Thanks again so much for your help.
Matt

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Posted: 17 July 2019 12:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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Hi Matt,

One key point is to have all the needed steps known. I often get one, then the next and so on. Which is in return, a chain reaction. Something that works is obsolete after the next step is revealed. I have asked often in this forum for a storyboard, I have yet to see one for the discussed project.

Which brings me to point two, yes, one can start and figure things out. A typical sign of this is a constant uncertainty, with the side effect that things get into the scene file that can be just tossed in, typically stuff bought from 3rd parties. The illusion of progress at that early state.

Getting lost based on the steps mentioned so far. Shifting procedures after unveiling new steps and sorting through a lot of parts in the scene that is not needed at that point will wear the artist down. I have sadly seen it too often, and it is not pleasant to witness that it takes the fun out of it.

Starting without R&D. I always start with tiny little explorations, simplified scenes, like the hole piercing into the plane. This works fast, and if it doesn’t, one doesn’t glue to work already done, which brings me to another observation.

Similar to all things said already, I often get questions here when someone hit the wall. Yes, I can’t be in all these thousands of projects done from the start; I understand that, but between sharing the whole story or only describing the roadblock are worlds apart. A typical procedure: Patching something from the point of the problem or going back and see if there was something that could have been set up from the start to prevent that problem in the first place, instead of patching up the problem and have a scene with a patch and the problem for the whole future.

There is more, but I hope you can see the pattern already.

Where you are at the moment is a critical point. My philosophy is, any problem comes back until solved. You want to quit this project, that is sometimes needed. However, any project will have some growing pain, desperation, and then perhaps a long stretch of feeling overwhelmed. All of that is the space you grow in as an artist. You remember probably the last project, didn’t you feel great when all things were finally rendered, and you had all that success with it?

Let me share a personal experience outside of digital art. I have worked as an architect for two decades. Each new project was more significant, more overwhelming. I had just finished and sold a $67M project, I had worked years on, I felt like the king of the hill. I had a team of 20 people in the office and mostly 100+ workers on each single construction side. (I managed 18 projects back then in that office) When I started with the next large project, I felt pumped up, unbeatable. Beginning with a new one means that all greatness that was achieved in the last one has no meaning anymore. Each project is special. Besides one’s experience and education, one starts at zero with each project. There is no: I know every single part of that project, ever screw or stone; Nothing. Just the requirements, among, law, location, client, environment, design, and banks. (Etc). From the top of the mountain to the deep valley in no time. This is each time a substantial psychological roller-coaster time. Because everyone expects the same confidence as before. Will not happen, but one has to keep going and grow.

===

This morning I woke up and thought, what about the cloner, and blend, while having Alembic in the mix. You see, I really don’t know all the combinations either. Cloner/Blend doesn’t work with Alembic files in this case. I have to figure out how to make it work. Edit: I found it, let me know if you like to see it. /edit

Cinema 4D has way over a thousand options, functions, and objects. If you combine only two at the time, there are a million possible outcomes, combine three, and you get a feeling of touching infinity. Combine 20, and it is impossible to go thought each and every option in a lifetime. So, yes, no one knows everything. People who pretend to know everything often know pretty much nothing. Or after reading about a solution: “Yes, of course”. But to get there, with all the points above in mind is the key, not hindsight.

I certainly have the impression that you have the endurance to go through complex projects. I have seen you adapting to challenges, and you finished projects. Remember that great feeling? Good. Take a day off and then make a list of what is needed for that project. Keep it as simple as possible. We can discuss options then.

Define a one-line “log-line” for this project: what is it, what needs to be shown, as well as how. This is the mantra for the project. Don’t go below and if you go above, check if it doesn’t jeopardize the whole.

My best wishes.

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Posted: 17 July 2019 04:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]  
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Dr. Sassi, thank you so much for your kind reply. You have been quite helpful throughout this process. I have decided to keep pushing through this project, despite its difficulties. It may not turn out the greatest, but I suppose I can only produce with the tools that I have. And unfortunately I think C4D lacks a lot of necessary tools that should be built in. For example the Emitter system hasn’t been updated in ages. Hence a lot of people having to switch over to X-Particles. But anyway, that’s an entirely different conversation in itself :D

I definitely learned quite a bit from the last couple of projects. It was nice to see how popular the AK-47 animation became:
https://youtu.be/_eQLFVpOYm4

I’m not sure if you saw the newest personal project I completed, showing how a Glock works:
https://youtu.be/V2RDitgCaD0
Unfortunately, this one doesn’t seem to be quite as popular, but ya can’t win them all I guess.

I appreciate you sharing your personal experience with me. I hadn’t realized you were an architect for two decades. That’s really great! But yes, I agree, every project is different and comes with its own set of challenges. And yes, there are definitely more than one way of doing things when it comes to animation. I think that I will take a day off (today) from this project just to kind of take a break and reset.

As far as a storyboard goes, here’s what I was provided with. They essentially want to show how the rubber bladder fails (pierced) in a tiring curing press:

1.​ ​One animation that shows bag slowly sucking in tight around internal mechanicals, eventually popping (Baseline)
a.​ ​In this animation only the round blue box fills up with steam and the black bag does nothing. After a little while the steam pressure builds up in the blue box and it pushes the black bag down the hole pictured in the middle-left picture.
2.​ ​One animation that shows bag staying loose and sucking in quickly at the end, popping right away (Addition of Check Valve)
a.​ ​In this animation both the black bag and the blue box fill up with steam and equalize. When the steam goes to vacate after equilibrium of pressure the bag empties too fast and the steam in the blue box pushes the black bag down the same hole as in 1.
3.​ ​One animation that shows the bag staying loose and sucking in quickly at the end, popping after a few seconds (Rounding of Sharp Edges)
a.​ ​Exact same as #2 but the edge in the middle left picture should be rounded off.
4.​ ​One animation that shows bag staying loose and fluttering at the end, but no longer sucking in tight, does not pop (Delay added)
a.​ ​Same as #2 but at the end when both the bag and the box are at equal pressure the box drains its steam out first and then when the box is empty of steam the bag drains its steam out.

Here are a few images that show the actual bladder and how it fails. There’s also a render of what I am actually putting together. I thought I was on the right track having the bladder expand and contract. But then the piercing is where I got hung up. And they also want to show the steam in the dome, which I really don’t know what to do. I guess Thinking Particles comes to mind. Not quite sure.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0sdx0ybow4gsavp/tire curing.zip?dl=0

Anyway, thanks again Dr. Sassi. I really do appreciate your help. And I have sent you a private message as well :D
Matt

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Posted: 17 July 2019 05:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]  
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Hi Matt,

Thanks for sharing the last work, was cool to see that as well. Great work.

Sounds good, a day off, let go of all the details to allow the bigger picture back into the foreground., I assume.

Yes, I had drawn and manually built my first house in my teen years, even before my first study of Architecture. It was always a good income and supported my education and my Art. After two decades I needed a change, so I finished my Master of Fine Art (as it is called here), with a work about Virtual Reality, based on my study of film, photography, art and set design. [1993] and wrote my dissertation about Computer Animation [1998]. This doctor work was my bridge into the digital world. Since then, I have not looked back, besides Set-design work. I even closed my paint-studio after 15 years (and twenty exhibitions) and work now exclusively digital. Love it. (I miss only the smell of Oil-Paint, and the big-income as architecture-office- and design-lead.) However, I never stopped learning! Education was even during today’s Lunch the core a more extended discussion.

To your project, we need to have a mesh that we can bring into the different states, including preparation for the piercing from the start, perhaps anything that might be necessary on top of that, from the beginning (in the picture it looks exploded. I’m not clear about the blue box, is that the inside of the mold (steam)? I think to bake the animations and use either the Animation Clip system, or just Alembic and go from there. As long as the mesh stays the same, mixing and blending should be just fine.

As mentioned earlier, editing is another key. (Not that I have to tell you that, but I write in a forum) The piercing could be just an insert/cut, then detail showing the piercing, cut-back to overview and the bag has the whole. (Perhaps: All along with the ideas of the Kuleshov experiment, montage and how the audience puts those pieces together. It doesn’t need to be all in the same model.)

Anyway. For now, enjoy your day, creativity needs space and time, certainly not pressure and stress.

My take: A text is not a storyboard. A storyboard for animation is as crucial as a blueprint to build a ship or house. It needs to communicate well. If done well, others can take over and do it, but it clears as well what needs to be done. This is like a drawing vs. a photograph. One can snap an image even with his/her eyes closed. Nothing is cleared. But: One can’t draw the environment without seeing and (!) processing it, then the drawing can happen. If that step is left out, improvisation takes place, failure might happen.

I haven’t received a PM yet.

ENJOY

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Posted: 17 July 2019 02:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]  
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P.S.: To support your motivation about a storyboard, here is a sketch that should give you all states of the ‘balloon’.

It is perhaps not in the sequence you are after, but stills that can be taken from it will be quickly brought into order.

Scene file:
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/Q7BdckhrvC6OJ6RtAPRGUOJsIdT8HndxE8I6mIRXRFv

I have added a wave animation [pose], which can be switched of with the little check box on the left side of it, just in case.

A storyboard is not only for your own part useful, but the client can also sign up on it, perhaps with some notes. Which will decrease frustration and loss of your time. Besides a storyboard is a milestone in work. Which allows asking for a substantial part of the payment. Clearing the story-flow as well as camera views and agreeing on the final content is a crucial step.
Besides, we are visual people, speaking about 3D animation at least, and I can certainly help better when I know exactly what is in your mind.

Cheers

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Posted: 17 July 2019 10:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]  
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Thank you Dr. Sassi, this is all quite helpful smile I really should have created an official storyboard before doing any real work on the project. Because I’ve probably already created more work for myself than needed. Thank you for creating the different states of the balloon, this will help me along the way!

I definitely like the idea of showing the crease in the bag, and then cut to another shot showing a tear. Like you said, it doesn’t need to be the same shot. I’m going to set up some still frames as a storyboard and get them cleared with the client.

Thanks so much!
Matt

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Posted: 17 July 2019 11:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]  
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This sounds perfect, Matt, I’m happy that you like to explore this.

I’m curious about your opinion when the storyboard is done and presented if it was worth it for you.

Thanks a lot.

Have a great day.

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Posted: 18 July 2019 03:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]  
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Dr. Sassi, wondering if you could take a look at the storyboard I put together: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3v0ulz1c7lqn0hn/Curing Press Storyboard.pdf?dl=0

Just wanted to get your feedback before I sent it to the client, as I value your professional opinion smile

Thanks so much,
Matt

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Posted: 18 July 2019 04:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]  
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Hi Matt,

The sequences follow the four short descriptions.

Looks good, feels better to have that ‘paper’, right?

I just share whatever comes to my mind, as a bystander, so toss what doesn’t make sense. You know more what they want than I do, of course.

What I miss is the close up to the sharp and later to the round version. In the images, it is closer, but too many parts are visible. This should always be a strong contrast to other camera views. It needs to be larger than shown in the images. So, the audience knows, this is special. The hole should fill 70% of the screen, in both cases (sharp and round)

In animation four, equal pressure should be indicated (perhaps arrows). If I get it right, what they try to sell is an update for this machine to overcome the failure of the bag. They propose a rounding of the hole and a pressure system that avoids the extreme fast shrinking of the bag.

Black and blue is used in the text, where is that in the images?

I can’t see any timing suggestions. Have a font example in three sizes and colors available, so that is not debated later on.

The text hasn’t any mentioning of the parts cured in the machine, in your intro scene we see a tire on the left, that should be shown as well; otherwise, it is hard to tell if the tire or the bladder will be cured. Think of a banker who has to finance the patent fees, lawyers and preproduction, s/he might get it wrong, and with that miss-understanding, the funding will be jeopardized.

My best wishes


P.S.: Yes, this goes beyond the Q&A, and my motivation is here, to encourage people to work with a storyboard. It certainly helps tremendously to communicate a project. In return, people will understand the flow of a Q&A thread much better.  It will show as well as why some decisions are made, and some are excluded. In this way, we have an example thread here, and that is all I can ask for.

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Posted: 18 July 2019 04:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]  
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Thank you so much!! Your feedback is invaluable. I will use this to strengthen the storyboard before I send it through. I really appreciate this Dr. Sassi.

Matt

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