Cineversity

Hello Sassi,

I hope you are going well. You may remember me as I have a focus on sacred geometry and the like.

Can you please assist in showing me how to re-create similar geometric shapes in the attached examples?

Thank you,
David

Hi David,

Please have a look at the files below:
Scene files
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/4ZtYRKRkG4LVNZjMaeNdf1GxwBdaTOScODbLseSKscN

The “…_MOcb_11.c4d” showcases only the idea behind this. The translation of those was, if I’m not mistaken, done by Aix Sponza, Munich. I have to check if they ever released a file. Some examples are in the Quickstart Manual from Maxon. Edit: the scene file was made editable, so no exploration from the Quickstart files /edit

In a nut shell, the base is a Platonic Primitive, set to Icosa. Each triangle has equal sides, so the connections must be done in a way that the neighbor picks the geometry up. The S shape can go also outside of the triangle. The provided file is a quick sketch, translate this to your liking. I have set up an XPresso to get the triangle measurements. The S shape typically would be only half and inside the triangle, the other half will be conected then via the Cloner Object. This needs some precision.

The second file, “…_MOtz_01.c4d” is much simpler, it could have been done with MoGraph, but for the sake of variety, I used a different approach.

I hope that will guide your explorations.

Cheers

Good morning Sassi,

Very kind of you to help again, thank you.

Right so I see the first one is fairly complex and thanks for mentioning Aix Sponza who does this style. I can explore more.

The second one (_MOtz_01.c4d) is simpler I see. Please can ask some follow up questions to futher understand.

1. If I want the arcs to be round tubes, instead of the square tubes in the scene file, how can I achieve this? I swapped the Cube under the Arc in the Objects list with a Sphere but the effect looked strange, like the polygons appeared squashed. What is the correct way to do this please?

2. I want to taper the top half of the shape so the end of each arc gets thinner as it reaches the top. I can see there are 2 settings under the “Spline Wrap” tool, Size > Size and Size > Spline Size. Assuming I am in the right area, which one is the right one to taper correctly because both seem have the same effect - please see screenshot.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tqnwapmk5669ca6/spline.jpg?dl=0

3. You mentioned for this second one that it could have been done with MoGraph, and thanks for the showing variety I love it. Amazing to see how the hierachy of effects and parent/child relationships work together. I would love to see the MoGraph way too to help me see how other effects can be applied.

Note: I did do an experiment myself and got a similar result but using the Sweep effect - sweeping a circle along the arc spline which was in an array. But your method is more elegant.

4. I can post this question this as a new topic if you wish, but it is linked to your use of Nulls in the scene file for _MOtz_01.c4d. Simply, are you using the Nulls for easy of organisation, controlling effects, or both? I want to learn when Nulls have to be used vs just leaving effects/deformers as parent objects.

Many thanks as always,
David

You’re very welcome, David, please have a look at the scene file below.

Answer 1
You could leave the file, set the Cube>Segments Y and Z to 1 and place the whole group under a Subdivision Surface.

Alternatively, the Cube way down in the Hierarchy is the one to swap out with a Cylinder, add enough height segments.
Set up the Cylinder -orientation X (+ or - it doesn’t matter. Select the Cube, then “Shift-key and C”, type in replace… click on replace with, press return. The cursor changes and pick the Cylinder with it, done.

Answer 2
Since the Spline Warp is set to “Fit Spline”, both will work in the same way, hence the confusion. The “Spline Size” refers to the complete Spline, the Size [only] to the actual object-“length” as it is populating the spline.

Answer 3
Have a look into the scene file. Both methods are good, each might have something that works nicer for some cases. The Spline wrap allows for all kind of objects, the Sweep for a simple set up with nonetheless many options to adjust. Perhaps another day, I would have used a Sweep. So, no particular reason. Nice that you explored it. I love finding alternatives, for many reasons.

Answer 4
There are three Nulls in it. The top one just groups things, which helps not only to organize the scene. The second one is needed to hold the Twist on the same level as the Array, so I limit the “influence” of the twist to just this, and nothing above. The third one is more to keep the Objects independent from the the Array or from the [now] Cloner as well. If things under a null, e.g., in the Cloner, they will be seen as one object. And for the Array, I can rotate things without going crazy, try it with out on the Array.

Scene file
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/2xJJmHR9n7MpU9gZs0YaXIWyXZMfOFmJGah3TzJT61g

All the ebst

P.S.: As you might have noticed in the file above, the Platonic and its use in the Cloner, has some structural requirements. So I have build a Platonic Guid. See file. The “collar” of this guide will support the border-contacts.

I hope that helps a little bit.

Scene file
You’re very welcome, David, please have a look at the scene file below.

Answer 1
You could leave the file, set the Cube>Segments Y and Z to 1 and place the whole group under a Subdivision Surface.

Alternatively, the Cube way down in the Hierarchy is the one to swap out with a Cylinder, add enough height segments.
Set up the Cylinder -orientation X (+ or _ doesn’t matter. Select the Cube, then “Shift-key and C”, type in replace… click on replace with, press return. The cursor changes and pick the Cylinder with it, done.

Answer 2
Since the Spline Warp is set to “Fit Spline”, both work in the sam way, hence the confusion. The Spline size refers to the complete Spline, the Size [only] to the actual object-“length” populating the spline.

Answer 3
Have a look into the scene file. Both methods are good, each might have something that works nicer for some cases. The Spline wrap allows for all kind of objects, the Sweep for a simple set up with nonetheless many options to adjust. Perhaps another day, I would have used a Sweep. So, no particular reason. Nice that you explored it. I love finding alternatives, for many reasons.

Answer 4
There are three Nulls in it. To top one just groups things, which helps not only to organize the scene. The second one is needed to hold the Twist on the same level as the Array, so I limit the “influence” of the twist to just this, and nothing above. The third one is more to keep the Objects independent from the the Array or from the [now] Cloner as well. IF things under a null, e.g., in teh Cloner, they will be seen as one object. And for the Array, I can rotate things without going crazy, try it with out on the Array.

Scene file
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/2xJJmHR9n7MpU9gZs0YaXIWyXZMfOFmJGah3TzJT61g

Enjoy the exploration.

Many thanks again Sassi - your answers are so detailed and complete.

I shall enjoy exploring these concepts, and leave you to enjoy your weekend

Speak soon,
David

Have a nice weekend as well, David!

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

ENJOY!

P.S.: When I have the feeling there must be a different solution, faster, easier or better, I can’t really let go of it.
The one’s showed above were mostly of my “technique” re=creating this around five years ago. However, analyzing the image of yours more in detail, the initial S example made me think if I could just use the Edge mode in the Cloner.

It took me a while to streamline the whole thing, but I hope this will help you to recreate the model. I left the “circles” just as a hint, a triangle, not an interlocking circle, so you can see it better.

Scene file/Screen shot
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/hncKpou5txtQV5qcJ6pnIO3nbdkXOm08fILjtk5jjPY

Of course, there is always another one, simpler to use. I was thinking of the MoSpline and its options to “curl”. While exploring the options, I came up with a nice (and mostly) parametrically set up. Please have a look here. The background image is from the CV HDR collection. Mine are too large to share, so I use these as dummy for here.

Scene file and a little rendered result.
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/bo9wI73A5R2rlrdJQpOBa4pqyYlKYv4RQlJcfGzsM8D

I think that come pretty close to you image.

ENJOY

Good morning Sassi,

Lol, it is hard to let go of the creative process I know. This is awesome!! Even this image I can stare at for ages, there is something mesmerizing when looking at geometry like this. It draws you in.

I will enjoy exploring these scene files and this really helps to see the techniques used to help the learning process.

Many thanks,
David

You’re very welcome, David, and thanks for the question.

Yes, it always pulls me in as well. A problem comes back until it is solved, there is no escape

I had solved it so far with the “content” inside the triangle, but somehow I know – there is something else. So, without your question I wouldn’t have looked into it again.

I hope you have fun exploring it, and store the findings in your creative library! Because that is what one needs, to play, explore and perhaps find other options to do, only to solve down the road something completely different.

The magic in C4D is not in the single tools nor in old recipes, the magic is in any new combination.

ENJOY.