Techniques to loop backgrounds
Posted: 05 June 2018 11:52 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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Hello - I am learning something new in C4D and would like some pointers how to create looping backgrounds similar to the animation in the linked files belows. They have simple materials and colour but I would like to know where to start how to construct the backgrounds and how to make the seemless loop. Any inspiration is much appreciated.

Link: https://1drv.ms/f/s!At7vaDNAUyZaimR_6d4WcqdhAzdg


Kind regards,
David

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Posted: 05 June 2018 12:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Hi David,

Here is an example file:
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/nUCOiIKJCXBPfcu5Ez6o89bdb6k2e714wwTpTjsnWeP

The key is certainly to have the interpolation method set to Linear (vs Spline), otherwise the loop would “pulse”.
Here the Offset in the Texture Tag is animated. Of course this is dependent on the texture how it works.

In the example above, I have set the keyframe at frame 12, which is identical to frame zero. For a perfect loop, the frame 12 is then not included.
One can loop footage of course in After Effects, after one segment is rendered out from C4D.

For more complex animations the start and end should be identical but not included, otherwise it would double. This is for any length of loop the same.
Example, if you like to do it with out the extra frame and “one less”, the formula would be
90/91*360º
For a full rotation loop with the standard frame amount of a 30fps scene/3seconds long.

Let me know if there are other questions, I’m happy to look into it.

The theme of loops is certainly larger and several methods are possible, on the end the more specific one is, the more a fitting procedure can be created.

Cheers


P.S.: here is a file that shows a Linear vs Spline (ease-ease) result:
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/CP9ojb4C8l6Sp5SG6K6GwX0dZWNddcoBW1BMqHQmDVt

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Posted: 05 June 2018 10:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Some older files to explore, as the loop as well, or can be used for loop explorations.
Scene files
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/nF1rjdHn0maSoywe40DGT4oHtZj3BAAHTDZJXMGCwf7
Thread:
http://old.cineversity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2720&PN=1&TPN=10
I checked them and saved all as r19 as well.

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Posted: 06 June 2018 10:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Texture and Object Loop.

In the link below you will find two scene file and two screen captures:
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/cH3CbMN60DYgFfL0RgJPIBZSNnE6hQQT4v5ETaIeetv

The texture based clip showcases shortly the idea of using multiplied offset values. To keep it simple the settings are first and last frame of the scene are equal, which means the final output has to be one frame less. It might have an advantage for motion blur to have “extra padding” of animation information.

The second screen-capture showcases quickly an object loop. Here with the doubled frame problem first, then with a formula directly into the parameter field. This timeline “notation” will allow to repeat the motion. ( Timeline> Functions> Track before/After: Repeat After and Repeat Before. ) The first screen-capture has not that option. For an perfect motion blur, this is a must.

All the best

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.

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Posted: 07 June 2018 11:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Hi David,

Of course I wanted to share the two files below:

https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/t6zP2QSmybYfhNFC1KWYi1tXG6wqdPL8HmFdViY8dsB

Both files are a quick recreation of your initially shared loop-clips.

Let me know if you have any other question.

Cheers

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials: Texture, Panorama, HDRI, Camera Projection, etc.
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Posted: 07 June 2018 04:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Oh my, you really are a wizard Dr Sassi!

Many thanks again and this has been very helpful because with your last example recreating the initially shared loops, it is the camera angle and zoom that helps to frame the scene. So simple when it’s broken down like this and opens the mind to think more laterally. Thank you.

Kind regards,
David

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Posted: 07 June 2018 09:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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You’re very welcome, David, thanks a lot.

Please let me know if you have some other looping ideas, I’m happy to look into it.

Yes, the Camera is certainly a key element, but keep in mind, there is always one light in the scene, and light is a key expression all by itself.

All the best

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials: Texture, Panorama, HDRI, Camera Projection, etc.
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Posted: 08 June 2018 06:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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I’d like to probe a bit more around your comment “but keep in mind, there is always one light in the scene”

Do you mean there is always one light and only one light for this particular scene, or you can have multiple lights?

I’m aware you can add multiple lights to a scene in C4D, just whether it is needed for this scene. I hope that makes sense.

Thanks,
David

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Posted: 08 June 2018 06:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Hi David,

I mentioned it, as the scene has a light “by default” in it, as there is at least one camera in the scene (four if you are in four side view).

This light will affect the outcome from a rendering. Have a look in: Edit Menu> Options> Default Light. (aka: Auto Light) Drag with the mouse on that sphere.

In the moment you place your first light into the scene (a “real” object, as in: listed in the Object Manager) this light will no longer influence the scene.
https://help.maxon.net/us/#45030

Lights have lots of qualities. In the larger amount of parameters and settings on can fine-tune the outcome. Even more so, by combining many lights.
Light is certainly one of the most powerful parts in a scene to transfer a certain mood, a huge field to explore, and as pretty much every seasoned Cinematographer will tell, it is a life-long learning field.
(In my early years, I had a large stage light show, and doing lights for seven bands over four years has certainly put my attention on it. This love continues deeply in my work since)

Cheers

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials: Texture, Panorama, HDRI, Camera Projection, etc.
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Posted: 10 June 2018 06:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Hello Sassi, well I have been playing with C4D over this weekend and applying the techniques you have shared in this thread.

I am so pleased I have made my own loop and attach the scene file and rendered file. I know this is nothing special considering the power of C4D but for me, as a learner, I wanted to share back with you so you can see students applying their knowledge.

If you have any suggestions for the best render settings for this type of scene/object/texture used. I notice watching the MP4 file that the texture shows some interpolation/jagged behaviour during the animation. Is this because of my monitor refresh possibly or can something be tuned in the render settings for a smoother/cleaner look?

Link to scene and render file zip: https://1drv.ms/u/s!At7vaDNAUyZajWW8dUutnjK1cSTS

Kind regards,
David

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Posted: 10 June 2018 08:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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Thanks a lot, David, for the feedback/files. grin

The first thing that stood out was the Anti Alias Still setting, instead of Animation. Still is typically sharper, but as long as no Motion Blur is calculated, a little bit softer helps.
If motion blur is widely given, the AA settings can go lower. If Geometry is sufficient, as mentioned in the Help Content, needs to be explored per scene, I would set it blindly.
https://help.maxon.net/us/#VPSCENEMOTIONBLUR-ID_VIDEOPOSTPROPERTIES

Secondly, even you can render out mp4, or any kind of 8bit/compressed, just avoid it if you can. Of course, previews are always OK in that. I suggest to use OpenEXR for many reasons and go then to After Effects and render compressed versions from there. If that fails, based on to low or too high settings, it is a quick solve to try something else. In C4D you have to re-render, which is typically much more time investment.

I suggest as well to go 32bit/channel as it can hold more color details, in this case more gray values. With 8bit/channel you 256, and for some areas the differentiation among “tone values” might be not sufficient, and “banding” might hunt you down, i.e., ruins your efforts.

I have rendered frame 40 to 48 with – Sub Frame Motion Blur – I took the 49 “samples”, but one can certainly get away with much lower samples.

Motion Blur is as well available with other methods, but for texture based scenes, this might be a good idea. Texture animation will not work with some techniques, as in Vector Pass pipelines.

So, here is the file back, with a Ae file, where I have looped the few frames many times. Same outcome, but much faster, considering Motion Blur based rendering.
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/PPQFEWAWpgBtf0f9w318qHqqFHgANjYPN3sPZXs2qng

As a side note, if the texture animation and its direction is unchanged and the texture might flow in the image “kind of” evenly, the motion blur could be baked into the texture (Photoshop>Motion Blur, which is a directional blur and needs to be set into the movements directions). This is a hack and might not work always, but the rendering can be done without motion blur. Which might saves a lot of time. Once the motion blur is in the image, the speed of the image is relatively fixed as well. How much motion blur for the texture, render a test with a sharp texture (Checkerboard) and you have an idea about.
Example file
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/1BZZR2G1M7mS4YFaXcFIu17mU74Fmey4YCUIgExfNZr

Enjoy

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