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Suggestions for create numerous contours on the same model (complex booleing??)
Posted: 24 May 2017 10:01 AM   [ Ignore ]  
Total Posts:  3
Joined  2017-05-18

Hi All,

New to C4D and Cineversity, so I apologize if I’m not posting this in the appropriate location.

I’m modeling an expanding broadhead (hunting tip for an arrow). The main shaft is machined out of one piece and has several surfaces that are machined at a different angles all a with different radius. I have the blades modeled fine. For the main shaft, I started with a spline of the overall shape, applied a symmetry to get a perfect mirror, then extruded. I began using Booles to start cutting away the shapes I want and I feel pretty close to what I need, but when I try to use spheres or cylinders in a boole to try to get the scalloped shapes on the tip, I start getting some weird stuff going on with my polygons.

Any suggestions as to what is going wrong here or more effective ways of modeling something like this?

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Posted: 24 May 2017 01:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Hi cbaker,

I guess you are working on the area where the screw sits. The first think you keep in mind is that the “Phong Tag” is responsible for a smooth surface. delete this tag for a moment to see the real geometry. The Boole can only create new points where the edge are already. Now think about the two different patterns of the part A and B. Typically this gives a zig zag, or just chaos with spheres and cylinders.
Roughly a decade ago I have created this tutorial, more a discussion about the problem during the first minutes.
https://www.cineversity.com/vidplaytut/modeling_02_cylindrical_hole

It contains all steps needed to have this part (as mentioned above—screw area), flattened and round towards the bolt.

All the best

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Posted: 24 May 2017 01:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Joined  2017-05-18

Dr Sassi,

Thanks for the prompt reply. I’m familiar with the basics of the boole function. If I have a simple rectangle I can boole a cylinder etc. The area I’m struggling with is the tip which is sort of a pyramid with a parallelogram base and all 4 surfaces are a bezel of some kind. My first attempt to create this shape, I started with an extruded shape of the tip, I used a cylinder at a 45 degree angle to try to create the bevel for the tip.  But where you state about the boole only being able to create new poitns where the edge already exists sounds like it might be the reason for my problem. I’m attaching a closer crop of just the tip of the product. I apologize that its not the best angle to judge from.

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Posted: 24 May 2017 02:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Thanks for the image and the additional information, cbaker.

The file below is just a sketch:

https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/DVoGWossMLnmZ8ijKopBJ5QKgkRZ0CIR7kOqgoh29hz?ref_=cd_ph_share_link_copy

Which would be my suggestion for the Extrude Object based set up.

If made editable, there are more options:

Since any polygon object can have a selection, such selection can be used in a Object Manager> tags> Restriction Tag to limit the influence.

The “new edge” (in your image the edge between dark and light gray) could be a cut and then deformed or while all points in question are selected, rotated around the new edge.
If the rotation is large, a scale in one direction is often needed. Changing the position of the axis (of the selection) to have the right rotation point.

My best wishes

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
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Posted: 24 May 2017 03:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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P.S.:

Here is a short clip (one minute) to illustrate the procedure:
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/H5U03PDgxjlv8HNnE522iMRA0Ov7jrsivaRnoc4grRU?ref_=cd_ph_share_link_copy


More about Axis
https://help.maxon.net/us/#TOOLPOLYSELECTION-MDATA_AXIS_GROUP

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
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Posted: 24 May 2017 04:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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I see the potential in the technique you are illustrating. Where I struggle is that the piece has a curve on every axis on 1 object and it is symmetrical, I wish points on a shape had bezel handles like a spline does. It may be that I am just flat out in over my head. At the end of the day it takes a lot of understanding of the program to model more and more complex things and I just don’t know the program that well (coming in from C4D lite which just doesn’t have the options that studio has).

I do have some CAD files for the product but they aren’t smooth enough to use.

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Posted: 24 May 2017 06:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Yes, cbaker, CAD files have a different target and often they need care to be useable.

Modeling is a job in its own rights and not something that can be replaced with some tools or short cuts. There is quality in the craft of modeling that can’t be achieved without experience. Boole works sometimes, but in Polygon (vs mathematical descriptions, e.g., the inner working of many CAD-ACIS apps) there are limits. It is what it is and there is no way around.

Modeling in curves is certainly a challenge and keeping a clean usable mesh is a skill, no question.

If you use Subdivision Surfaces or model with a Magnet tool, or just use weight tags and deformers with restriction is something that I would call case dependent.

As I have mentioned over the years (well decades by now) modeling is like playing chess, if one has not the ability to see many strokes ahead, it might not end well. So, why do I tell you that? The simple reason is, that often anything in 3D is underestimated because one could think of a plug in that could do it, or some stuff that one can buy, but that limits one’s chances to grow. Take your time, go through the modeling tutorials here, patrick’s for example, or just ask with a specific file, as general questions are really not the way to go, there are often many ways to get a result.

Splines and guis are one’s friend in this game, just to make you life easier. And save iterations!

My best wishes

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
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Posted: 25 May 2017 03:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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Here is one of my little “P.S.:” follow-ups.

As mentioned, check out Patrick’s modeling tutorials. However, to model with more tools than the category of Mesh Menu shows, it is not a new idea to model with all kind of things.

Please explore the two examples below.
Scene Files:
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/Gng4HqTu7SHAXKi0JvXIAIBoHlL7yzA8Pg2vyRqLPij?ref_=cd_ph_share_link_copy
Note that I used the Spline as Knife here as well to get the shape into the model. You asked for round …

The first on uses an Effector set to Deform: Points. The first time I used it was for these kind of soft front letters.
http://old.cineversity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2720&PN=1&TPN=6

The second file explores the idea to use a spline as well, but this time as pure information (i.e., guide). The XPresso set up checks for each point the closest distance to the spline. This is then translated (RangeMapper>Spline Interface) into a value for the Weight Map. The Weight Map itself limits the use of the Deformer. It helps to create for all deformers with no falloff to get a smooth transition from “non-deformed” to deformed. The Spline can be moved or changed in shape, so you can work interactively.

Anyway, the idea was as well to showcase the Restriction Tag, as well as to just motivate the exploration of alternative. But of course, the Magnet tool or the (Weigh) Vertex painting (Live Selection tool) will work as well.

Please have a look here, it is a one minute clip, quickly exploring both files.
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/wuPWU89iWKxQugl21Q9z1D4iz2h4FI5QJcHBzRbvFFa?ref_=cd_ph_share_link_copy

Enjoy

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.
Cinema 4D Mentor since 2004
Maxon Master Trainer, VES, DCS

Photography For C4D Artists: 200 Free Tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DrSassiLA/playlists

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