transfer point order?
Posted: 20 March 2017 02:12 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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Hi.

If my point order gets messed up and I have a copy of the mesh with the correct point order is there a way to transfer it from one object to another that is an identical mesh?

Thanks, Dan

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Posted: 20 March 2017 09:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Hi Dan,

The point number is connected to the X, Y and Z coordinates.
The points are used to define the polygons, so just change something might mess up things.
So, what one can do is to transfer the X, Y, Z values from the original to the copy.

Why not swap the mesh out? I guess some work was done on it.
I do not know what happens or why at all the number/sequence has changed. So any suggestion is just wild guessing, not my favorite thing to do.

Can you copy the original mesh and the out of sequence mesh in a new file and share it. If that is not possible in a forum (public), then I can create for you an upload link.

All the best

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.

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Posted: 20 March 2017 10:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Hi.

This happens at times to my meshes in which my Uvs are lost, broken, and I cant do any function that requires in tact point order such as pose morphs on a already rigged mesh. My mesh may be rigged, while im making pose morphs in Zbrush on a un rig mesh.  What I need to know is how can I copy the point order from the same mesh that isnt rigged onto the rigged mesh.  There is a host of many issues that require the point order to be restored such as to copy Uvs from one object to another which can be done in Zbrush, but of course not if the point order is different.

Thanks Dan.

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Posted: 20 March 2017 10:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Thanks for the insight where it happens, Dan.

I’m not aware that anything can be done about it, assuming that the mesh is altered (broken sequence, UVs etc). What would any set up get to know about the new mesh, to figure out what a point was before and now altered in XYZ values and number in the Structure Manager. The position in the list and the location in space have been altered. There must be a reason why ZBrush change s things. This step needs to be cut out. As I mentioned, the problem is not only based to get the points back, it is also a problem to sort the new point numbers to the polygon definition, as the imported mesh seems to be fine, changing that point order would destroy the polygon definition. Have a look into the Structure Manager and check the different “Mode” settings.

My hope was to just set up a little XPresso and transfer the values, but knowing now that ZBrush creates a new mesh (that is what I understand so far) this is a no go. (I can share a set up, so you can test it, but I have very little hope.)

The suggestion that seems the most plausible, check what operation creates this restructuring of the mesh, as it is not just the point numbers. Perhaps even check with the ZBrush Support if there is an option.

I don’t know what you do there and if that could be done in C4D to a certain degree in a similar way.

Fingers crossed the ZBrush experts have a solution.

All the best

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Posted: 20 March 2017 10:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Thanks for your reply.  Zbrush is not always at fault, most times its c4d that breaks the point order.  It’s a issue that is hard to break down as it can happen without knowing it until I notice a morph isn’t working, or uvs are gone or messed up.  True symmetry pluging messes up point order and uvs, so does sub devision from mesh menu.  I need a pluging or script that can copy point order,  and uvs from one mesh to another.

Dan

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Posted: 20 March 2017 11:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Hi Dan,


I got your idea what is needed, but I’m not aware of such, nor have even an idea how it could possibly know what was and is wanted. Otherwise I would send this idea to some developers and hope it could work.

If it is C4D, then please contact the support. But I have the feeling is is more related to plug-ins.

TRUE Symmetry plug-in: how it handles points at or around the symmetry axis is the question. For constant results, you might leave some options off, since you mentioned it creates trouble.

(I use C4D since 20 year and I have yet to see a damaging point sequence change from native tool use.)

Anyway, I understand the pain to work and see bad results. Not what anyone likes to have.

Please contact the support, and check if they have any ideas for you, the options (scripts, plug ins, etc) are huge and I’m not aware that anyone knows everything. So, please give it a shot.

https://www.maxon.net/en-us/support/how-can-we-help/

My best wishes.

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Posted: 21 March 2017 12:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Dr. Sassi - 20 March 2017 11:00 AM

Hi Dan,


I got your idea what is needed, but I’m not aware of such, nor have even an idea how it could possibly know what was and is wanted. Otherwise I would send this idea to some developers and hope it could work.

If it is C4D, then please contact the support. But I have the feeling is is more related to plug-ins.

TRUE Symmetry plug-in: how it handles points at or around the symmetry axis is the question. For constant results, you might leave some options off, since you mentioned it creates trouble.

(I use C4D since 20 year and I have yet to see a damaging point sequence change from native tool use.)

Anyway, I understand the pain to work and see bad results. Not what anyone likes to have.

Please contact the support, and check if they have any ideas for you, the options (scripts, plug ins, etc) are huge and I’m not aware that anyone knows everything. So, please give it a shot.

https://www.maxon.net/en-us/support/how-can-we-help/

My best wishes.

Thanks for your support. 

I can confirm that the Subdevide command found in the mesh menu does mess up point order, where as the SDS Tag applied does not.  The True Symmetry pluging instantly destroys any model no matter what options is used.  There are other tools in C4D that im still trying to find that also does alter the point order, but I normaly find out at a later stage.

Maya offers the ability to transfer vertex maps for point order, and id pay for a plug in that does this in C4D.  https://www.highend3d.com/maya/script/maya-mesh-reorder-transfer-vertex-position-tool-for-maya

Thanks Dan

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Posted: 21 March 2017 08:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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Hi Dan,

I checked the video and it has obviously what you need; Now find someone who transfer it to C4D. Thanks for sharing, this was new to me.

Since I edited the message above already, let me add this as well, perhaps share the link with MAXON directly, please use the suggestion option:
https://www.maxon.net/en-us/support/suggestions/

The Subdivide doesn’t mess up the points, it adds new points and in any way, this leads to new points, it does it one time while executed and then it is available information. Yes, it differs from the original object, of course it does. To call it mess up, well, I’m not certain what else to ell. If you think it messes it up, get in contact with the support.

The Subdivision Surface leaves the mesh as it is and generates new points based on it for each frame newly. This is nice but it comes with a cpu price-tag.

Anyway, since I have no set up, nor the True Symmetry plug in, please check with the support.

My best wishes

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Dr. Sassi V. Sassmannshausen Ph.D.

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Posted: 21 March 2017 11:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Dr. Sassi - 21 March 2017 08:24 AM

Hi Dan,

I checked the video and it has obviously what you need; Now find someone who transfer it to C4D. Thanks for sharing, this was new to me.

Since I edited the message above already, let me add this as well, perhaps share the link with MAXON directly, please use the suggestion option:
https://www.maxon.net/en-us/support/suggestions/

The Subdivide doesn’t mess up the points, it adds new points and in any way, this leads to new points, it does it one time while executed and then it is available information. Yes, it differs from the original object, of course it does. To call it mess up, well, I’m not certain what else to ell. If you think it messes it up, get in contact with the support.

The Subdivision Surface leaves the mesh as it is and generates new points based on it for each frame newly. This is nice but it comes with a cpu price-tag.

Anyway, since I have no set up, nor the True Symmetry plug in, please check with the support.

My best wishes

Thanks for your reply and help.

When I apply as SDS Tag onto a object and set the render level to 1, then make it editable, as you know it applies that Sub divide to the mesh.  When I go to the Mesh/commands and choose Sub devide with smoothing on it produces a mesh identical to the SDS tag applied one, however as you can see from the picture below, while the SDS tag applied one can transfer morphs from one object to the other, the mesh that was Sub divided by means from the Mesh menu/commands seems to not produce the same point order and thus the morphs can not be applied to another object with an identical mesh. 

The case would mean that while we have visually two identical meshes one method of sub dividing over another does not consistently create the same point order.  This is only one area that C4D does this, however there are other things that also change the point order than I havent found yet but its happening when doing what should be non destructive editing, yet the point order has changed.

I will contact Maxon, as this cane be a game changer for many.  There is nothing worse than having weighted a character to find that all the morphs you have made are not compatible because the point order changed in some way.

http://i.imgur.com/TBgUayg.jpg

Dan

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Posted: 21 March 2017 12:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Thanks a lot, Dan, for clearing it. The illustration works as good as a scene file to get the idea. When I read “it messes it up” I got the wrong picture. So, this is clear now.

I have set up a similar scene just by using the Mesh> Commands> Subdivide in “smooth” and with smooth off, as well the Subdivision Surface Object made editable. Yes, for the PoseMorph this renders it incompatible, even if all settings are lead to the same amount of points. I can see it. Edit: with Cylinders and Optimize it becomes clear. While using Cubes, not at all /edit

This is nothing that I can fix here, and sorry about the time it took. I normally insist to get a scene file, I should have done this here as well, as it safes time.
Please check with the support, so we might have this fixed in the future.

So far, I have used the SDS (HyperNURBS) after the PoseMorph, to keep the scene small, but yes it takes each frame to calculate. I kept the mesh for all cases in the same way.
I haven’t seen any tools inside C4D that re-orders anything based on a pre-existing mesh. There is also no XPresso set up that I remember that can sort through this.

My best wishes and thanks again for the information.

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